Joe Wicks and his breastfeeding journey

[IHaveAGreyLamp]

Joe Wicks has written in his ‘Wean to 15’ weaning and cookery book about how his wife breastfed their first child. He refers to it as ‘his’ journey- ‘This is just me sharing my experience and journey’. Sorry Joe but what exactly was your breastfeeding journey?

He goes to on preach about how you should just do what’s right for you and your baby, and ignore the opinions of anyone else. Sage advice but I think I would have felt better if it had actually come from his wife (you know, the person of actual experience of breastfeeding and what it’s really like?)

There’s also a lot of ‘we did this’ and ‘we did that’, for example his wife both pumped and breastfed but ‘we found this quite challenging’. Yes Joe I’m sure you did find it quite challenging considering you were neither breastfeeding nor pumping.

I have to say I’ve found myself filled with an irrational rage reading this section of the book. Why couldn’t he have let his wife write this section, to talk about it from a breastfeeding mother’s point of view, rather than a man trying to claim something so inherently biologically female as his? Argh!

Luckily I had only been lent the book to have a look through- I would have been even more annoyed if I’d actually paid £8 to line the pockets of this smug and annoying individual!

We hear enough complaints about absent fathers, let's stop resenting and mocking the ones who are involved and who make their partner happy shall we. Exactly this.

There are many MANY tasks in your average household that are “ properly helping “ and don’t require you to be able to lactate. I don’t see too many fathers queueing up to do all these.

and.. we are back to projecting and the usual resentment against MEN

Many men happen to be helping in all areas they can, but don't let that stop you from being so bitter.

This. I get really pissed off with the whole “we” thing. The only thing “we” did was generally have a shag Well that is a shame, thankfully most women I know get a lot of support but I suppose not everyone is that lucky.

he has a degree in sorts science ( commendable) but no actually qualifications in nutrition.

This is my main problem with him. I know otherwise sensible people who have followed his eating advice and it worries me the influence he seems to have.

It is very admirable that he has got people off their arses in lockdown, and I do think he makes exercise more accessible to people who otherwise wouldn't do it, but that's where I draw the line.

And this breastfeeding stuff sounds HIGHLY annoying.

@ancientgran

This. I get really pissed off with the whole “we” thing. The only thing “we” did was generally have a shag Well that is a shame, thankfully most women I know get a lot of support but I suppose not everyone is that lucky.

exactly

so shouldn't we encourage the support instead of resenting and mocking it because "we" don't like the phrasing? Who cares.

If HIS breastfeeding wife felt supported and happy, surely that's all that matters? It doesn't hurt one bit if a MAN dares talking about breastfeeding journey and help making it NORMAL for fathers to be just as involved. As much as they anatomically can obviously

£££££ KERCHINGGGGG!! £££££

Mr. 'I Just Want To Help The Kids' has become Mr. 'What Else Can I Do Make A Bit Of Dosh Out Of This'.

Didn't take long did it? Shame.

Supporting someone through something tough does not make it 'your journey'. DH did not have 'his journey' through my operation for suspected cancer; I did not have 'my journey' when he went through work-related anxiety to the point of near mental breakdown. Of course both of those affected the other one, but it's insulting to pretend that it was in an equal way, and it's also insulting to say that Joe Wicks had 'his' journey through breastfeeding.

I will admit to having a bias against any parenting advice from Joe Wicks because our eldest children are the same ages to within about a month and I still remember someone sharing one of his posts about how they just had such a chilled out baby because they were both so chilled out, and I still want to tell him to fuck right off.

There's a balance to be had between indifferent and unsupportive and super engaged and invested. Both ends of the spectrum have their flaws when the actual process is solely happening to a woman.

Would it have messed up his book plans if his wife had decided after a couple of weeks that BF wasn't working out for her and she wanted to stock up on Cow & Gate?

I have no idea what Joe Wicks is like as a person but I've known enough couples with new babies over the last few decades to know that stress and pressure can come from more than one direction.

I don't follow this argument that we should be happy with him expressing himself however he chooses on the presumption that his wife is happy.

Does someone on here know her personally?

Else, how on earth do we know how she feels?

I think until we stop treating fathers as if they were rather dim Labradors we need to train up to be slightly more than useless, we're never going to get equality, because they'll always think they're doing wonderfully well when they're doing very little.

It is not a 'journey' to watch someone else doing something.

The 'we' in reference to experiences that only the woman can have is exasperating. The worst I ever heard was 'we didn't have pain relief during labour'. Seriously?

There are lots of ways a man can get involved with caring for his newborn child - and many men do. Breastfeeding just isn't one of them.

It did make me laugh how he thinks he invented the concept of Baby Led Weaning, and all of his sage mansplainy advice about raising a small child. It's like Joe, honey, we have been doing this for a looooong time!

He's not my cup of tea for lots of reasons (not least because I find the HIIT workouts so uninspiring and dull!) but he has helped a lot of people recently with his videos, whatever his motivation.

I think until we stop treating fathers as if they were rather dim Labradors we need to train up to be slightly more than useless, we're never going to get equality, because they'll always think they're doing wonderfully well when they're doing very little.

Brilliantly put! It's so grim and depressing watching DH get praised as amazing for being 'such a hands on dad', while I get judgement - even though actually we probably have about a 60-40 split with me doing the 60. For instance, we both work four days a week, and it would appear from people's reactions that he's The World's Best Dad for looking after a toddler alone one day a week, while I'm a cold bitch for spending four days away from my child...

That is correct, he does not have any qualifications in nutrition, he co-wrote the book with a qualified child nutritionist (but you don’t find that out until the very last page of the book where she gets a very small mention)

No such thing as a “qualified nutritionist”. It isn’t a protected title and anyone with a certificate from the University of Fictional science can call themselves a qualified nutritionist.

I don't know who Joe Wicks is but you said it yourself: your rage is irrational.

I can't imagine a world where this bothers me. Loads of celebrities write dumb stuff in dumb books. Just ignore it and carry on with your life.

FWIW on the "we" thing, I've never even heard it in real life. Or never been bothered by it enough to pick up on it if I have. Seems to be one of those harmless and irrelevant things that mumsnetters love to get angry about.

My brother is a bit like this. He talked about when they were pregnant and when they were going in to labour and the problems they had breastfeeding. My mum gave me shit for pulling him up on it and wittered on about how his wife appreciated his caring and 'being so involved' and then his wife said actually no I fucking hate him talking like that, it's embarrassing. You can be very, very involved and very, very supportive whilst still recognising that you are not the one pregnant, giving birth or lactating and you just sound a bit of a tit if you speak as if you are. (Mind you if my brother took a shit in his garden our mum would wax lyrical about how great he is to naturally fertilise the plants and how lucky his wife must feel to have a husband who does that so...)

@Hardbackwriter

I think until we stop treating fathers as if they were rather dim Labradors we need to train up to be slightly more than useless, we're never going to get equality, because they'll always think they're doing wonderfully well when they're doing very little.

Brilliantly put! It's so grim and depressing watching DH get praised as amazing for being 'such a hands on dad', while I get judgement - even though actually we probably have about a 60-40 split with me doing the 60. For instance, we both work four days a week, and it would appear from people's reactions that he's The World's Best Dad for looking after a toddler alone one day a week, while I'm a cold bitch for spending four days away from my child...

Thank you.

It is seriously weird. I always assumed I'd have a baby with a man and I was on MN for years listening to women talk about this stuff, and I thought I knew it all.

Then I had a baby with a woman and I ended up with the men doing NCT and so on, and it still had the capacity to absolutely stun me. The men in our NCT group were mostly nice, some of them were lovely, and not one of them was what you'd call abusive or a bad father or anything like that.

But the sheer level of expectations floored me. There is so much pandering to men as if they're stupid and incompetent and need praise all the time. It is incredibly embarrassing. I don't see why intelligent women would defend it. It's not good for men or women.

@unmarkedbythat I laughed out loud at your post. Are you my sister?!

Well you can't have it both ways

you cannot insist on making all the baby issues YOURS and yours only, and be miffed offended or precious because the father gets involved.
I am sick and tired about women trying to keep men away and clinging onto what they pretend belongs to them.
Even my local Facebook Mums group is banning fathers - instead of being a parenting group. No one is putting their boobs out on facebook, no valid reason whatsoever to keep it "female only, absolutely none.

My own DH was tutted at baby clinic because his male presence was bothering other mothers - it's a clinic to check the weight of your baby! How is that remotely a female thing??!?

I want fathers to be just as involved, know it's absolutely normal to be involved, it's not a female thing, know that breastfeeding might be natural but it's not easy, it's challenging and can be painful and mentally difficult at time.

Women win nothing at all by pretending men need to be kept out.
Now if YOU are more comfortable and don't want YOUR partner around when you breastfed and want to keep it YOURS, that's absolutely fine and nobody's business.
But we cannot stop fathers to join in.

Perhaps he's currently working on 'From First Twinge To Out It Pops - Joe's Journey Through Giving Birth'?

That would be massively helpful to women too.

It's nothing to do with 'having it both ways' though, is it?

It's about respecting men as human beings, rather than treating them as fools.

Fathers can't 'join in' with breastfeeding. There is no sensible reason to pretend they can with language about 'our breastfeeding journey'.

You need to read some of the other bits of that book OP, there's a delightful section where he berates his mum for not breastfeeding him and for feed him things like (shock horror) pasta in tomato sauce. He says it makes him laugh that she was so clueless. Gave me the rage.

I am sick and tired about women trying to keep men away and clinging onto what they pretend belongs to them.

My tits belong to me and if DH had spoken about them as if they were his during the seven and a half bastard years I spent feeding our children he would not have liked the response, I don't think

@SarahAndQuack I wish, if I had a sister there would be someone to share my eye rolling at the constant praise and awe at everything the brother does!