For Women Scotland branded the Klu Klux Klan in cartoon

[fatblackcatspaw]

twitter.com/DomM_G_/status/1326440800675389442

If you are on twitter please report this tweet.

Even better please dig for their crowdfunder to challenge Scottish Government redfining women to include men. They are £18000 carrotts down and it would be a great help to them to have tangible help. Three days to go.

[Winesalot]

So can we blame you MBD for the horrific things said by activists on twitter then? Or what about just the person who said it was women’s fault for having eggshell skulls and being murdered by men.....

No? Ok then... Back to the thread.

[334bu]

Call me a snowflake but you wouldn't exactly be the first to denigrate a transgender person's humanity in this way, as Germaine can tell you:


Us females must be a hardy lot then given the amount of abuse we receive around the world from males denigrating our humanity. However, I would not dream of blaming you MadBadDaddy for this.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

their inherent misogynistic hatred of us which is the filter through which they read what we write.

It's projection, isn't it.

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hello everyone - this thread is becoming somewhat derailed. Can we ask that it stays on track, please? Many thanks.

[SophocIestheFox]

It’s not you, eresh. It’s utterly shameless, the smearing.

I wouldn’t even take it personally, we’re all just one amorphous blob of wrongthink to MBD, I don’t think MBD is that fussed which one of us said what. MBD also clearly doesn’t much care if the matter at hand is “things MBD thinks we said”, “things we didn’t say but MBD reckons are worth pretending we might have” and “things posters here have actually said”.

Anyway, there won’t be an apology, so back to the topic: “feminists are just like white supremacists, yes or no?”.

[SophocIestheFox]

Oh. Crosspost there.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

I think the recent posts speak to a wider, relevant point about GC feminist women being an "amorphous blob of wrongthink" as Sophocles put it so well. I don't see that depicting an actual Scottish feminist group as the Ku Klux Klan is any better than depicting a character meant to represent extremist TRAs of the type we've all come across on social media in the way the amended cartoon did. It's tit for tat.

[Escapeplanning]

I wonder who will survive the cross fire on this thread.

Body count needed.

[334bu]

Absolutely two wrongs don't make a right. However, the constant attempts to tarnish GC women as right wing bigots is all over social media and even this board.

[334bu]

are all over

[RedDogsBeg]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I think the recent posts speak to a wider, relevant point about GC feminist women being an "amorphous blob of wrongthink" as Sophocles put it so well. I don't see that depicting an actual Scottish feminist group as the Ku Klux Klan is any better than depicting a character meant to represent extremist TRAs of the type we've all come across on social media in the way the amended cartoon did. It's tit for tat.

The irony being that the amended cartoon wasn't produced or posted by GC Feminists or For Women Scotland, it was produced and posted by someone whose sole raison d etre is to smear Wings Over Scotland, someone who is on the TRA side.

MBD doesn't seem to grasp this either so I'll say it directly:

@MadBadDaddy take your outrage at the amended cartoon to the person who produced and posted it.

Portraying For Women Scotland as the Ku Klux Klan is a disgraceful, appalling smear.

[MadBadDaddy]

@MadBadDaddy take your outrage at the amended cartoon to the person who produced and posted it.

The cartoon I'm whingeing about was the first post on this thread, and was described as "a laugh" and there has been barely a murmur of straightforward criticism of its hateful depiction of transgender people, from a site that is aggressively adamant that it "doesn't hate transgender people", and all I've asked is this thread put its money where its mouth is, and TBH I resent even having to do that.
I care little for your surreal efforts to justify it or lay the responsibility for all shitty things ever done in the name of trans rights at my door. No-one with an ounce of decency and fair-mindedness should defend this obscenity.
I could have just reported it or screencapped you but this thread damns itself

[RedDogsBeg]

I care little for your surreal efforts to justify it or lay the responsibility for all shitty things ever done in the name of trans rights at my door.

And I care even less for your surreal efforts to justify and excuse all the shitty things done and said in the name of trans rights and your even worse efforts to twist them around and lay them at the door of GC Feminists on here.

No-one with an ounce of decency and fair-mindedness should defend this obscenity.

So take it up with the person who produced it and posted it, tell them that no-one with an ounce of decency or fair-mindedness would have produced such an obscenity, acquaint yourself with the reason why a supporter of trans rights produced and posted it, why it is still up on that thread and why all those, like you, who are wedded to the trans rights mantra have made no complaint about it. It was posted by one of your supporters to slur and defame Wings of Scotland, just like the original was posted to defame and slur Women for Scotland.

No-one with an ounce of decency or fair mindedness would have produced the original cartoon, but you seem to think that one is okay, your double standards are despicable.

While you are at it you could also apologise to Eresh and admit you were totally wrong in your defamation of her, your failure to do so makes it blindingly obvious what the content of your character is.

[Winesalot]

So to be clear MadBaddaddy. You had nothing to say about the FIRST cartoon that was posted here and now that I have read the thread many posters were talking about. Nothing at all? You could see nothing wrong with it.

However, someone created a rebuttal cartoon to which a link was posted to on here (which many on here don’t use twitter and so some did not click through to see) and that is what you are talking about? Not both of them?

Two wrongs don’t make a right is very true. Both cartoons are out of order. And let’s not get into a debate about proportionality.

If on this thread you responded to the first cartoon and I missed it, then I apologize. I see you have had quite a few deleted posts so maybe you had told us that you thought the first cartoon was outrageous too.

However, if you have not commented on how outrageous the first cartoon was, the depiction of Women for Scotland being the same as the Klan, you have just taken the opportunity to continue to further shame women for fighting to retain women’s rights

To be clear, not to gain further rights, just to retain those we have for the intention they were established.

So, did I misread your existing posts? Do you believe the first cartoon was fine? That For Women Scotland, and any person who believes that the rights for females that they are fighting to keep, is the same as the Klan? A group who killed people who they felt were not human.... that is how you believe women fighting to retain established rights should be considered?

[TalkingtoLangClegintheDark]

Great post Winesalot.

I strongly suspect that is exactly how MBD sees us and wishes us to be seen.

Pure demonisation.

But of course I would be delighted if MBD could clarify whether this is the case or not in MBD’s own words.

[RedDogsBeg]

You'll be waiting until the 12th of Never for that Talking as will Eresh for the apology she is owed.

[MadBadDaddy]

@Winesalot
I posted my thoughts on the original cartoon, but these were deleted. I also said there could be no objective discussion on the matter, and this has been born out. So for this comment to stand a chance of remaining, I can't really offer on opinion here, except to say that, judging by their Youtube stats, FWS don't appear to represent many people's views at all.

IMO, there is nothing 'proportionate' between attacking a group for their chosen political opinions and attacking a group of people for who they are and did not choose to be. "Out of order" just does not cut it.

I haven't gone beyond this point on this thread, have not sought to shame anyone for anything except for their inability to condemn an obviously hateful image of a marginalised minority group who are under frequent, sustained, coordinated attacks, especially during Trans Awareness Week and the Trans Day of Remembrance.

Since I signed up, I have never once expressed an opinion that Mumsnet is beyond the pale as far as trans rights go, nor have I ever reported anything. Trust me when I say I have been to transphobic web spaces, and this ain't it.

Finally, I will never apologise for reacting to being referred to as 'it', whether it was intentional or not.

[BetsyM00]

FWS don't appear to represent many people's views at all

Twitter is the main place for interaction with many women's groups, including FWS.
Woman's Place have 40.5K followers. To be proportional with the populations of the respective countries FWS should have 4.5K followers. Yet they have 13K followers.

Seems to me a lot of people in Scotland are supportive of FWS.

[fatblackcatspaw]

Engender have raised £2000 in membership fees in the last financial year- FWS has raised over £60000. FWS has managed to raise directly from women over 30 times the paltry amount Engender has. Engender's main income 94 % is from the Scottish Government DIRECT. They are a client org and as such toe the Scotish Government's line. And scragged up a miserable 47 attendees at their recentl AGM.