Canada - Judge delays double mastectomy

[Dimpsey]

Saw this on twitter and thought I would share: vancouversun.com/news/b-c-supreme-court-judge-orders-surgeon-to-deny-trans-teens-mastectomy-wish?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1604974077

Mother of the child asking the surgeons to provide evidence of the protocol they have followed to demonstrate that the operation is in the child's best interests.

I once asked that from a trans activist. Their answer was that it is deeply transphobic to think that the 80% have a worse life as transgender people even if they weren't "originally" trans.

A preventable lifelong dependency on medication and living with the consequences of surgery you now regret is a worse life than not dealing with those things. How could it not be? Why isn't transition 'cisphobic', following their logic?

Exactly. It has all the hallmarks of a classic “ Mistakes were made, but not by ME” ( highly recommend the book of that name, by the way).

I once asked that from a trans activist. Their answer was that it is deeply transphobic to think that the 80% have a worse life as transgender people even if they weren't "originally" trans.

I love how I had to crawl over broken glass to get any point across, only to get piled-on and misinterpreted, and yet "...someone down the shops said..." is taken as absolute dogmatic trans-truth and energetically discussed b/c it backs up your fears and prejudices.

If you dine on garbage then is it any wonder that everything stinks? And then from this position of ignorance believe you are protecting women and children? Or that you don't hate trans people? Or that any debate can hope to be constructive and not extremely toxic?

BTW @Winesalot, a poll on Debbie Heyton:
twitter.com/MistressSins/status/1284566196545871872?s=20

Oh, a twitter poll by someone called MistressSins. That is truly a legitimate and impressive source.

You do not actually see the irony, do you?

I love how I had to crawl over broken glass to get any point across, only to get piled-on and misinterpreted,

Your pain and suffering and general martyrdom has been noted, as has the revealing comparison of yourself to a gazelle being hunted by lions earlier. Why don't you answer exactly the same question then? What a perfect opportunity for you, no broken glass is required and you can demonstrate very easily that the opinion being discussed is unrepresentative!

Do you really believe that it's in the best interests of the 80% who would grow out of it to commit them to a transgender identity for life for the benefit of the 20%?

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/insight-is-2020/201910/how-understand-and-handle-bitter-people

I found this article useful in coping with a difficult family member.

I'm sorry if you felt piled on

But is it possible to get an answer to a question, that if you are going to treat/medicated children that there should be a clear definition of what you are treating ?

I think that's vital for eveeyone isnt it?

If something is permanent isn't it important everyone is sure ?

Mermaids say one thing that's completely incomparable with the nhs...

Who do you feel is correct?

'pile on'

Says the person who uses the issues of others as a gotcha with no apology.

We see you.

I think in Canada children can be removed from their parents if they fail to affirm the child's gender. Which is handy for anyone working in the care sector because of the numbrr of vulnerable children they will inevitably come across, but a pretty poor state of affairs for anyome who really cares about safeguarding.

Crawling over broken glass to post on an Internet forum?

What silly hyperbole. If there’s broken glass between you and your laptop or tablet, perhaps clean it up rather than writhe round in it?

Do you have anything intelligent to say about the content of this thread on this forum, which is about: is it ethical for doctors to be performing irrevocable surgery on healthy body parts in young people with known existing mental health difficulties? what would the protocols for that look like, and should doctors be required to explain, articulate and justify those?

This was the most helpful part from the attached DRs blog in dealing with a family member

Bitter individuals will inevitably negatively impact you if you engage with them in any meaningful way when they are triggered. It's important to note that men and women who have become emotionally bitter are not necessarily bitter, passive-aggressive and conflict-seeking all the time. Like anyone, they have good and bad moments, but they simply have more bad moments than good ones. The key is to notice when the individual's mood has been negatively triggered; these are the moments when they are prone to engage in conflicts and to try, consciously or unconsciously, to induce the same negative feelings in you. Bitter men and women feel a mix of powerful negative emotions that they can't handle or "sit with." As a result, they seek to offload these negative feelings on the nearest object so they don't have to "carry" them alone any longer. Though bitter men and women would be hard-pressed to admit it, my clinical experience tells me that seeing that they have upset others is, in the most confusing and seemingly sadistic way, somewhat gratifying for them. In other words, they may feel better because they made you feel worse.

@Kantastic

I love how I had to crawl over broken glass to get any point across, only to get piled-on and misinterpreted,

Your pain and suffering and general martyrdom has been noted, as has the revealing comparison of yourself to a gazelle being hunted by lions earlier. Why don't you answer exactly the same question then? What a perfect opportunity for you, no broken glass is required and you can demonstrate very easily that the opinion being discussed is unrepresentative!

Do you really believe that it's in the best interests of the 80% who would grow out of it to commit them to a transgender identity for life for the benefit of the 20%?

Komodo Dragons, actually.

No, of course i don't believe that stupid quote! What a stupid thing for them to say.

The problem is, IMO, being such a tiny demographic, any voice gets seized on in a search for a representative opinion. "Transgenderism" (God I hate that term - so abstracted) is nothing like "Feminism" which represents a huge body of thought, enquiry, people and history. I think it is therefore problematic to try interpreting trans individuals' opinions through a FWR lens. (This is just my opinion)

I'd also bet hard cash that the majority of the posters on this thread are at most only indirectly affected by anything discussed here, if that. Meanwhile my daily life, safety, healthcare, rights, etc. (as well as those of the child in this topic) are directly influenced by the natterings and edicts of a 'concerned' majority operating from a comfortable distance.

Surely as has been previously pointed out though any questions would merely be answered by a "heres the treatment, here's the outcome risks and benefits, here's our records etc "

Then we'd have no influence at all surely?

[quote MadBadDaddy]I once asked that from a trans activist. Their answer was that it is deeply transphobic to think that the 80% have a worse life as transgender people even if they weren't "originally" trans.

I love how I had to crawl over broken glass to get any point across, only to get piled-on and misinterpreted, and yet "...someone down the shops said..." is taken as absolute dogmatic trans-truth and energetically discussed b/c it backs up your fears and prejudices.

If you dine on garbage then is it any wonder that everything stinks? And then from this position of ignorance believe you are protecting women and children? Or that you don't hate trans people? Or that any debate can hope to be constructive and not extremely toxic?

BTW @Winesalot, a poll on Debbie Heyton:
twitter.com/MistressSins/status/1284566196545871872?s=20[/quote]
Well, in that case, what's your answer to this question which I asked you earlier?

Do you really believe that it's in the best interests of the 80% who would grow out of it to commit them to a transgender identity for life for the benefit of the 20%?

[quote MadBadDaddy]I once asked that from a trans activist. Their answer was that it is deeply transphobic to think that the 80% have a worse life as transgender people even if they weren't "originally" trans.

I love how I had to crawl over broken glass to get any point across, only to get piled-on and misinterpreted, and yet "...someone down the shops said..." is taken as absolute dogmatic trans-truth and energetically discussed b/c it backs up your fears and prejudices.

If you dine on garbage then is it any wonder that everything stinks? And then from this position of ignorance believe you are protecting women and children? Or that you don't hate trans people? Or that any debate can hope to be constructive and not extremely toxic?

BTW @Winesalot, a poll on Debbie Heyton:
twitter.com/MistressSins/status/1284566196545871872?s=20[/quote]
Literally four people have responded to that 'deeply transphobic' quote, MBD.

Again, to claim that "this is taken as absolute dogmatic trans-truth and energetically discussed" bears no resemblance to the reality I see in front of me.

Just like "no-one questioned this".
Just like "this thread was nothing but attacks on everyone involved except the absent mother."

Do you think this sort of thing actually helps anyone?
Genuinely, do you actually believe that what you write is factually accurate?
I did actually look to the few articulate trans posters on here to get some sort of insight and I'm actually quite depressed that this is the best that it gets. Yet more hyperbole instead of rational analysis.

And you can hardly claim to be misinterpreted when your response when asked for clarity is essentially "I'm not telling you".

I'd also bet hard cash that the majority of the posters on this thread are at most only indirectly affected by anything discussed here, if that.

You're kidding, right? Almost everyone either has a child identifying as trans, or non-binary, or similar, or there are children in their class doing it.

It's being taught in schools, for god's sake. Gender clinics are buckling under the strain.

Of course it affects everybody.

Do you live under a rock?

I'd also bet hard cash that the majority of the posters on this thread are at most only indirectly affected by anything discussed here, if that.

Nope. Directly influenced.

Thanks for the link to the poll on Debbie Hayton.

Are you saying that twitter is now the place we should be looking to for the opinions of transpeople then?

@Kettlingur

Oh, a twitter poll by someone called MistressSins. That is truly a legitimate and impressive source.

You do not actually see the irony, do you?

It's just so revealing, isn't it.

I'd also bet hard cash that the majority of the posters on this thread are at most only indirectly affected by anything discussed here, if that.

You might find that you will lose that cool hard cash then mightn’t you.

The reality is that this teen’s experience is hardly unique and we have spent the thread telling you just that.

Meanwhile my daily life, safety, healthcare, rights, etc. (as well as those of the child in this topic) are directly influenced by the natterings and edicts of a 'concerned' majority operating from a comfortable distance.

Most of the posters on this board are female. All females are directly affected by these issues. I find it pretty offensive that you think this is all about transwomen - this is actually all about women and womens' rights. Our healthcare, our privacy, our safety and our ability to define, discuss and defend ourselves is 100% directly impacted by these issues.

No, of course i don't believe that stupid quote! What a stupid thing for them to say.

That's great then, so you're agreeing with all the women that you've compared to reptiles that the interests of the vast majority of trans-identifying children are best protected by preventing them from making irreversible changes until they're old enough to understand the consequences of their decisions?

Or perhaps you're mad that unlike you that person actually gave a substantive, albeit horrifying, answer, whereas your preferred approach would have been to avoid the question entirely and cry about being dogpiled when anyone called you out on this avoidance?

Why don't you answer the question? Which wasn't about whether you believe a "stupid quote" or not, it was about how to protect children.

Do you really believe that it's in the best interests of the 80% who would grow out of it to commit them to a transgender identity for life for the benefit of the 20%?

And if you don't believe that, as you've indirectly implied, how should the interests of the 80% be protected then?

And, MadBadDaddy, while I do actually welcome you visiting this board to explain the stance, as I find it very useful to hear a variety of views, I still haven't heard an explanation of what I think is a really important question -

what is gender dysphoria?

If it's not to do with stereotypes, what is it?

I'd really like to hear your thoughts on that, if you care to share them.

@Winesalot

Thanks for the link to the poll on Debbie Hayton.

Are you saying that twitter is now the place we should be looking to for the opinions of transpeople then?

Hmmm, quite. And further, if we were, Mistress Sins’ Twitter feed is....ummmm....well, you’d have to go and look.