Irish Labour senator uses TERF as a slur

[XXSex]

How offensive.

“TERFs can go suck coal” apparently
twitter.com/hoeyannie/status/1315326910453383170?s=21

Irish ‘feminists’ are some of the worst on this. They seem to bend over backward to pander to men. I don’t know why but I’m sure it has something to do with how women are treated generally by their state and society.

How rude.

This is a senator who has re-tweeted about the sex-based pay gap: twitter.com/The_Wheel_IRL/status/1323569999588610050

and who has tweeted about the Mothers and Baby Homes issue.

But "TERFS".

I feel alienated from the world at the moment.... where has logic gone to live and where has empathy gone to live and where, oh where, have all the history students gone?

Coal?

Makes a change from "ladydick" I suppose.

Why is she saying "bisexuals exist"?
Has anyone said otherwise? Why is she acting as if this is a radical statement?
I am laughing at the comment asking if she thinks she is in the 20th century.
Labour have lost enough voters and don't need to alienate more voters by using these kind of misogynistic slurs.

@RealityNotEssentialism

Irish ‘feminists’ are some of the worst on this. They seem to bend over backward to pander to men. I don’t know why but I’m sure it has something to do with how women are treated generally by their state and society.

And how is that, pray?

@gaoth. A constitution stating that women’s place is in the home? Extremely strong influence of church? Very slow to receive even basic reproductive rights? I always find it interesting when people try to deny that this is the case and claim that those criticising ‘don’t understand’. I’m not trying to enter a debate about this but to the outside world, the Irish state and the Catholic Church appear to treat women like second class citizens.

I’m Irish, living in Ireland after many years in the UK, and old enough to have been on the lam posting abortion information stickers in women’s toilets, and I had my antenatal care in the unit where Savita Halappanavar died, so I am well aware of the issues. However, I regularly hear on here and elsewhere completely underinformed thoughts from non-Irish people who simply have no actual knowledge of Irish society which is, in many ways, not dissimilar from that of the UK, rather than than the pre-modern theocracy they clearly believe it to be. As a tiny example, my child attends an entirely secular state school here in Ireland — when we lived in England, all state schools had the requirement for a daily act of worship broadly Christian in nature. His years at an English village primary exposed him to far more Christianity, including Biblical literalism and creationism, than he has ever encountered here.

Ironically, the reason trans rights have such a following among irish feminists is largely due to the momentum carrying over from the gay marriage and abortion rights referenda campaigns in a (misguided) attempt to ‘be nice’.

I agree somewhat Gaoth.
I think you are right that attitudes have moved on a bit, but I think there is a reactionary fear of being old fashioned....God forbid you should now mention the work that the religious orders did at a time when our new-born state was not able to afford it, nor did the state have the structures to provide (education, health etc etc).

In an attempt to be "modern" and "tolerant" and "nice", there a lot of babies being thrown out with the bathwater.

There's an unthinking rejection of old norms, because they're old rather than really examining what the function of those norms was.

So, why do we have women-only short lists?
Why do we have single sex prisons?
Why do we have single sex schools?
Why doesn't your teenage daughter share a tent with the boys on the Scouts trip?
etc etc

"TERFS" (awful word that has come to mean something dreadfully misogynistic ) are really the people asking those questions.

I am both pro-womens rights and pro-trans rights.
The fact that I can hold both those thoughts at the same time appears to be enough to blow some people's tiny minds.

As a woman, I reserve the right to prioritise my concern for women's rights over those of other groups.

As a woman, I reserve the right to prioritise my concern for women's rights over those of other groups

Agreed. I don’t know why this has to be argued against. Women centre women in their feminist movement.

“I've been female for a long time now. It'd be stupid not to be on my own side." ~Maya Angelou.

Ironically, the reason trans rights have such a following among irish feminists is largely due to the momentum carrying over from the gay marriage and abortion rights referenda campaigns in a (misguided) attempt to ‘be nice’.
Yes, a few friends of mine are Irish and feminist and started this from a 'its supporting gay rights, isn't that good' type view. They do understand now, especially with the recent cases in prisons, but it was quite hard as they did immediately shut down when I tried talking about this to start with and assumed I was uncharacteristically being massively homophobic

If Ireland is so fabulously enlightened these days how do you explain this?

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/least-one-irish-woman-day-22177981

graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/irish-women-travelling-to-access-abortion/

335 GPs (out of 4,000 in the country) who have ‘opted in’ to provide abortion in Ireland since it was legalised335 GPs (out of 4,000 in the country) who have ‘opted in’ to provide abortion in Ireland since it was legalised

And, out of the 335 GPs who do provide terminations, only 182 have agreed to be publicly listed

And that women are still travelling to the UK for abortions?

Having lived in both countries (and two more): all countries are sexist, they are just sexist in different ways. And it is much easier to see the sexism that you aren't used to, then it is to see the sexism in your own country that you are used to.

@rivierliedje

Having lived in both countries (and two more): all countries are sexist, they are just sexist in different ways. And it is much easier to see the sexism that you aren't used to, then it is to see the sexism in your own country that you are used to.

Excellent point.

@DidoLamenting

If Ireland is so fabulously enlightened these days how do you explain this?

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/least-one-irish-woman-day-22177981

graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/irish-women-travelling-to-access-abortion/

335 GPs (out of 4,000 in the country) who have ‘opted in’ to provide abortion in Ireland since it was legalised335 GPs (out of 4,000 in the country) who have ‘opted in’ to provide abortion in Ireland since it was legalised

And, out of the 335 GPs who do provide terminations, only 182 have agreed to be publicly listed

And that women are still travelling to the UK for abortions?

Exactly Dido. I dont think any Irish person on this thread disagrees. There's a lot of regressive attitudes if you lift the lid in Ireland.

And that was my (perhaps badly made) point.
Irish feminism prioritising the Trans agenda to the disadvantage of other women is either indicative of

• the ongoing misogyny which has put on a different dress (deliberate irony) or
• a naiveté about the reality of power structures and continued adherence to the socialisation of Irish women to be "nice".

However, Annie Hoey should be a bit smarter than that. She has a post-grad in women's studies (from UCC, which can be a bit NAMALT on women's issues) and is from a farming background, I think.
You'd imagine she's have a bit of cop-on.

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” Frederick Douglas

Annie Hoey has a post grad in women's studies? And she wrote that tweet?
That is truly depressing.

I'm going on her own bio here:
www.anniehoey.com/meetannie

Yet these 'retrogressive progressive' types are reworking misogynistic attitudes which are just so tired and very old fashioned. To me, they cannot even see what is in their own interest as women. To me, they are the types who do not examine concepts fully and in the interests of appearing progressive go along with whatever ideology is being promulgating as 'progressive'. The Ideology has just changed to another version, but same ideas which are abusive of women's freedom in the past. Some women also colluded with the last Ideology hook, line and sinker. Even when the men determined that 'fallen' or 'bad' women should be condemned from the pulpits and incarcerated illegally in Magdalen Laundries.

I bet these 'progressive' groupies are all condemnatory of what happened to women when the state allowed religious ideology to adversely impact women's rights relative to men. The irony is that they themselves are doing the same thing right now, just under another misogynistic ideology.

However, the fact this person is a senator and has insulted members of the populace who are doing nothing but trying to defend their rights makes it a more serious matter. In fact, I think that is disgraceful. Imagine if they slurred any other section of the populace with a similar slur?

I really do not think that a post grad in women's studies is a sign of intellectual ability.

And no, I would not expect anything of any woman in public life in Ireland these days - there is no fear we will have a Baroness Nicholson in Ireland any time soon.

I also agree this is appalling behaviour - I read the thread yesterday and did not see any apology to women from Labour, I don't suppose it changed to-day?

I'm English (well, mongrel, but raised in the UK), and living in Ireland.

My kids go to a fantastic Church of Ireland school, where there's more God talk than I've had in any of their other school ('acts of communal worship' being a very fuzzy thing in the UK in my experience). The mums (and dads) I'm friends with and chat with at the school gate are as varied as anywhere (it's a school in a poorer area, but which attracts people from a wide area who don't want their kids at a Catholic school, or an Educate Together school, so it's very diverse), and the general attitude is definitely 'live and let live, but leave the kids alone' - I've raised the subject with the people I know better, and none of them realised that along with gay marriage they voted in letting anyone self-certify their sex.

All of them are heavily against medicalising children, whilst still being very understanding of kids who are in anguish, but seeing why just liking other things would matter. Basically, they have a huge dose of common sense on the matter.

I agree re no Baroness Nicholson here any time soon. I'm not really sure why, though.
I too bristle a bit at the generalisations we often see about how backward and sexist Ireland is. As if the UK, or any other country, is a bastion of equality, when we know that's not the case. I think we're all guilty of seeing a problem in another country through the lens of our perception of that country, if that makes sense.
This board regularly highlights appalling injustice and attitudes towards women in the UK but no one ever seems to make the broader leap to saying that the UK treats women appallingly.

They didn't. 2 seperate bills and we did not get a vote on the Gender Recognition Act.

People need to get writing to TD's and raise the profile of the issues. A Bill to amend and modify the 2015 Act is now before the Seanad.

It is An Act to amend the Gender Recognition Act 2015 to provide a right to self- 5 determination for persons who have reached the age of 16 years; to introduce a right to legal gender recognition for persons under the age of 16 years; and to ensure consideration of the status of non-binary persons in Irish law.

www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2017/43/

So they'll consider the status of non-Binary people in Irish law. When they can't even define or consider half the population of the country. It is like a big nebulous, vague undefinable idea in law. After the Law Society chappie said they couldn't even anticipate or consider any the provision state services such as incarceration for males who id'd as women. Heck, particularly women (you know 50% of the population) weren't even considered. Would some poor girls have had to be housed with an under 18 Barbie?

Are they going to be sending those prospective 16 year olds for cross sex hormones and surgery?

data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2017/43/eng/initiated/b4317s.pdf

On the other hand, they are sealing the records for the mother and baby homes where women and children were brutalised in body and spirit. They aren't even today afforded respect of being able to own their own history as the state trips over itself for the easy route to 'appear' progressive.

Useful link

www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2017/43/