Irish Labour senator uses TERF as a slur

[XXSex]

How offensive.

“TERFs can go suck coal” apparently
twitter.com/hoeyannie/status/1315326910453383170?s=21

Lol Abhann - yes, our masterpieces gone!

Fiona Indeed, someone is very sensitive. Or someone didn't like what I was saying about how it's middle-class urban areas that are being targeted by groups who are pushing the trans agenda very hard so it's made people in those areas afraid to speak out. Or perhaps it was the bit about how people in these faux-progressive bubbles don't realise how out of step they are with the rest of Ireland, where things like the transitioning of young children, or TW playing on women's GAA teams, aren't gaining much traction when people do become aware. Or that many such people are skeptical about genderism without being more broadly socially conservative (i.e. nonetheless supporting marriage equality, abortion rights, etc.). So many inconvenient facts all in one place 🤔

Outside of the larger urban areas most people are not aware of the trans agenda. Most people would associate transwoman with Hayley from Coronation St and not be aware of the GRA. I think in general people have a live and let live attitude and would be supportive of trans rights to live their lives without harassment.
If Self ID is extended to 16 to 18 year old teenagers then teenagers can legally become the opposite gender. A teen boy who identifies as female can be legally recognised as female.
How do schools cope with this? It is one thing supporting a teenager who identifies as the opposite gender but if they legally become the opposite gender then the school will be legally bound to accommodate this.
Are trans girls going to be allowed use girls toilets?

Play in girls sports?
How are overnight school trips managed?
These things need to be addressed before any extension is passed. But raising these issues is considered trans phobic.

There is training from BelongTo for teachers and youth organisations that states that children who are trans must be accommodated in sports and over night trips in the gender they identify as. It’s being rolled out across the country.

And yes, it will be illegal for single sex girls schools not to allow a male attend and vice versa.

When it comes to single sex schools I'm wondering how's it going to work. If they admit transgirls who are male do they then need to kick out any girls who transition to transboys? Because if they have both transgirls and transboys attending they cannot claim to be a single sex school and they cannot claim to be a single gender school either. So on what grounds could they refuse to accept all other boys?

This is all so depressing.

Excellent posts from everyone. I was wondering about the deletions. This forum is under the watchful eye of our friends who have nothing better to do than harass women waves

@XXSex

There is training from BelongTo for teachers and youth organisations that states that children who are trans must be accommodated in sports and over night trips in the gender they identify as. It’s being rolled out across the country.

Do you have a copy or a link to the materials? I had a look but only found an online course you have to register for.

Their old primary school training programme that was created with DCU was ok, as far as I remember. More about anti-bullying with lots of case studies of gender-non-conforming behaviour that was not labelled as trans, just something that kids shouldn't be bullied for. Things like how girls can play football and have male friends, boys can grow their hair long, etc. Even the specifically trans example was about an older sibling (i.e., not a primary school peer). It'd be a really pity if a reasonably good training programme was lost to ideology.

This is aimed at secondary schools and youth organisations. I saw someone posting screen shots on Twitter and I took copies then.

These are the relevant ones

Trying again!

I think the bit about lesbians being “primarily” attracted to women is a poor show by BeLonGTo.

Thanks XXSex - it's a bit disappointing compared to their previous offering alright.

Poor show on the definition of lesbian and gay, and on saying trans students should be allowed to PE with their chosen gender.

On the upside, at least it doesn't extend to toilets and changing rooms, where the first recourse is gender-neutral facilities and only whee they don't exist are trans students meant to be allowed use the facilities of their chosen gender. Since the vast majority of schools have gender-neutral facilities in the form of unisex disabled toilets (apart from some very old buildings with no prefabs onsite), most schools could avoid that circumstance if they wanted to. It may come down to the board of mgt and PTA, but at least that's where parents can make their voices heard.

Also good that the trans student position doesn't automatically extend to competitive sports. It's very easy point out the physical risks involved in both directions (imagine the risk to a female-bodied teenager when playing boys' rugby? or the risk to a girls' camogie team of a male-bodied player towering over them with a hurl?) and I think that risk alone will create a lot of opposition for minor players.

The way I see it with respect to sports is the art it will be de facto for competitive sports. Since they’ll be allowed to compete as the opposite sex in schools setting, there will be a huge pressure to change sporting policies. I think it’s the thin edge of the wedge that’s being used.

Similar to the toilet issue.

Overnights are mixed sex.

I’ve noticed that they have dropped homosexuality from the list of definitions. Gay is mainly attracted to their own “gender” It’s erasing same sex attraction.

They’ve also said that “sexual norms” are protected under the Equal Status Act

In my town, all the post-primary schools are single sex. It's a bit of an anomaly, but there you go.

So what will happen when a child of 16 in one of those schools decides that they identify as a different gender?
It's a 20-30 minute bus or car journey to another town that might have mixed sex facilities.
But, why should the child have to move?

Personally, my view is "Great, identify as the opposite, but you dont move school".

And the school should be supported to come down hard on any bullying.

You dont move school, you dont join opposite sex sports, you dont change with the opposite sex, you dont apply for scholarships for the opposite sex etc etc.

@XXSex

They’ve also said that “sexual norms” are protected under the Equal Status Act

Ish. They correctly say that sexual orientation is protected, but then conflate it with "sexual norms" in the next sentence. Clever.

If I were on the board of management of a secondary school, I'd find it pretty easy to argue that my preferred school policies (as a gender critical parent) are consistent this guidance for the most part while still being consistent with safeguarding principles.

School overnight trips, for instance, do not require shared accommodation for girls and male-bodies trans students. Rather, the guidance says that activities should be with the chosen gender. So the male-bodied trans students might sit in the self-esteem development session with the girls rather than the boys, but sleep on their own in a single room. Not perfect as it doesn't take that girls' views into account, but at least it follows basic safeguarding.

PE is the tricky one, and frankly I'd advocate for all PE activities to be mixed sex from now on so that the boys can adapt their playing, in a supervised environment, to a style suitable for mixed teams. If you don't divide PE activities by gender at all, then the guidance doesn't come into play.

I am not sure that it would be that straightforward. If the teen has a GRA, then treating them differently might be seen as discrimination. I would hope all such potential issues would sorted out before passing any laws.
I think the law society said they didn't anticipate the situation with the 2 trans women in Limerick prisons. which doesn't really inspire confidence.

I have been meaning to write to "someone" for ages as it feels so powerless to do nothing, and I'm not active on social media. Do politicians have assistants that read post and emails and may not pass it on? Is email or letter best? I will try some of the Seanad members mentioned above and maybe a few local politicians.
(I'm just expressing my disbelief that the original GRA means people can change sex legally in Ireland with nothing more than filling in a document, and asking has there been a risk assessment around schools before this new amendment).

@StephanieRang
It is possible that your TD may not actually read your email or letter. Especially if they are in one of the parties in power. But if there is enough feedback from the ordinary public then they would be made aware of it. Otherwise, they are going to continue to claim their are no problems on Ireland with Self ID and pat themselves on their backs on their progressivness.
It might seem futile to write but your voice is important.

I would also suggest writing to the Minister for Education, Norma Foley. She didn't reply to me but hopefully she will take note of parents concerns.

@XXSex

There is training from BelongTo for teachers and youth organisations that states that children who are trans must be accommodated in sports and over night trips in the gender they identify as. It’s being rolled out across the country.

What exactly is Belong To? Belong to whom or what ffs. It's a nightmare trying to navigate these opaque Quangos with their wanky meaningless names. Ireland is a world leader at this evasive and disingenuous crap. Do schools have to act on this nonsense though ?

What about local newspapers or radio? TD's hold local surgeries, don't they? Once a month/fortnight or something. You could go along with someone. What it means overall for girls.. .

All along with emailing/writing.

BeLonGTo. The capitals are for LGBT

www.whoismytd.com/