Irish Labour senator uses TERF as a slur

[XXSex]

How offensive.

“TERFs can go suck coal” apparently
twitter.com/hoeyannie/status/1315326910453383170?s=21

Cailleach am I reading that correctly?

That is a Bill which has passed the Dail and is into the Senate, to allow children under the age of 16 to decide that they can legally change their sex? Alone. Without parental or medical supervision?

And there is NO national debate about this?
Have I read that correctly- I am not a solicitor so want to be sure of my facts before I would put pen to paper (or finger tip to keyboard more like).

Sorry I've gone back to read it again and I am wrong from straight out the gate.

How on earth, in the time of a pandemic, with a looming ecnonomic crisis, is this getting any airtime with our lawmakers?

As with the previous legislation this has been done quietly, under the radar.
I honestly believe the majority of people would not support this legislation but most people are unaware of it so it will pass.
I wrote to all my TDs, none replied.

Seconded by David Norris, of course.
A man with an interest in matters that pertain to the age of consent.

@Weatherwarning

As with the previous legislation this has been done quietly, under the radar. I honestly believe the majority of people would not support this legislation but most people are unaware of it so it will pass. I wrote to all my TDs, none replied.

Yes, under the radar. Which tells me all that I need to know about it.

I've never contacted a TD or Senator before- how do I go about it?
To hell with anonymity - this is my Rubicon.

I work with children with developmental challenges (of all sorts) and this is too open to being mis-used.

Never mind my concerns about women's rights to same sex provision and protection.

They didn't. 2 seperate bills and we did not get a vote on the Gender Recognition Act.

AAhh OK, I wasn't yet in Ireland at the time, so I didn't realise they were separate bills.

There are some powerful people doing this clearly - not just the legislation being pushed through so quietly, but also quashing any talk of any of the issues with it - I've not heard anything on the radio about Limerick Prison for example, and that's just unbelievable.

@FionaMacCool, you can look up all of their email addresses on the Oireachtas website.

I have written about the Barbie case and got 3 responses.

What I want to know is WHO is behind all of this? WHO drafted all of these bills and who decided to put this into law? Of course it was not any of the fools we elected to govern this country so I would be very interested to know WHO is the person at the helm of all of this.

Perhaps we could ask Village magazine to investigate?

If you go on the Dail website you will get the contact details of all TDs.
I think that the fact that this is being ignored by the Irish media has ensured that it has not become an "issue" that TDs are willing to speak out on. Most are terrified of appearing non progressive. Therefore it is easier to remain silent.
In a country where you can't get a tattoo under 18, how can they support this bill?
It doesn't make sense. Especially now as more questions are being asked about the connection with Autism, and the influence of social media. Also the Ciara Bell case in the UK should surely give pause for thought. But there is no discussion in Ireland about these issues.
The more people that write to their TDs the better.

Anna's girl, were the replies you received in any way understanding of your concerns?

@Weatherwarning, sadly only one and I don't want to mention who as I know her. But the other two were "la la la nothing to see here" one of them was very involved in Feminism over the years and is not a TD - you should guess from that!! but is always on radio and TV. She would be very invested in the other side on this and no way will she back down. The other reply was more a thank you for your letter.

@Weatherwarning, I also think there is more to it than that - they really do not see the problem and think we are all overreacting on the barbie issue. I don't know whether it is lack of critical thinking ability (probably in most cases) or if it is more sinister, but this legislation was enacted so silently, I believe there is a concerted but silent force behind it.

See also how all of us who questioned O'Gorman were lumped in with John Connors as right wing loons. There is a substantial, highly funded campaign behind all of this, employing a lot of woke young graduates. How else can you explain all the media coverage?

I was expecting the thanks for your letter type responses but I feel the non responses I received was more telling. They know this legislation would not be popular so "no comment" is the safest way to go at the moment.

[quote RealityNotEssentialism]@gaoth. A constitution stating that women’s place is in the home? Extremely strong influence of church? Very slow to receive even basic reproductive rights? I always find it interesting when people try to deny that this is the case and claim that those criticising ‘don’t understand’. I’m not trying to enter a debate about this but to the outside world, the Irish state and the Catholic Church appear to treat women like second class citizens.[/quote]
The constitution does not state a woman's place is in the home.

The influence of the church has waned dramatically. One of the main reasons the church had such influence is due to the fact the church provided healthcare and education. This was after effect of the poverty of the country as a result of colonialism. Not ideal but better than the alternative.

Yes, you are correct regarding reproductive rights but that is a side effect of church influence.

I think the reference is probably to Article 41.2.

Article 41.2 states:

1. In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.
2. The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

@3timeslucky

I think the reference is probably to Article 41.2.

Article 41.2 states:

1. In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.
2. The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

I assume it is.

However, that article does not say a woman's place is in the home. It states that a woman should not be required by economic necessity to work outside the home.

Irish but living in the UK.
When I speak to my family/friends back home they are never well-informed about any of the GRA type law reforms that have taken place in Ireland. "Under the radar" is an understatement, and they are universally all horrified when I explain the legal status quo in Ireland now. The Barbie case has been useful, as a real life example of "something that never happens". I've also flagged up things like the HSE's reference to cervix havers instead of women, and that really hurts as the scandal, whereupon women died that could have been saved, is still very recent and very raw. I suspect people In Ireland aren't hearing about what is going on because the silencing is very effective in Ireland and people have been schooled into thinking they will be seen as bigoted (and to be honest, they will) if they speak out or question. As a nation we have gone directly from being afraid to speak out about the church, to being afraid to speak out about this latest theology.

As a nation we have gone directly from being afraid to speak out about the church, to being afraid to speak out about this latest theology.

I see this view a lot on MN, authority of the church being replaced by authority of gender ideology, but I just don't buy it.

If it were true, then being afraid to speak out about gender ideology would be much greater in Ireland than in (say) Canada, which has been a secular state for far longer. But it's not so! If anything, Canada is even further under the thumb of genderism and the fear ordinary people, politicians, the media, etc. have of speaking out is more widespread.

If it were true, then the former bastions of the church's cultural power and intimidation (small communities, particularly rural areas and country towns) would now be the bastions of genderism. But no... rural areas and towns are far less accepting of gender ideology than urban areas and (imo) people in these areas are less fearful of saying they agree with JKR (for example) than urbanites. Instead, middle class urban areas, which were always church-lite relative to the rest of the country, are driving gender ideology and the fear of speaking against it. And since people from this socioeconomic class are overwhelmingly overrepresented in rte, newspapers, etc. as well as in political life (staff and lobbyists, more than TDs themselves), their voices are the loudest.

So nah, I don't think there's anything special in Ireland about the fear of speaking out against genderism. Same as many other countries, it's simply regulatory and cultural capture of a core group with disproportionate social power by a group of people who are very good at whipping up vicious criticism against anyone who disagrees with them.

The good news is that the tide of opinion can shift against them at any time, so here's to sunlight on the issues!

*Irish feminism prioritising the Trans agenda to the disadvantage of other women is either indicative of

• the ongoing misogyny which has put on a different dress (deliberate irony) or
• a naiveté about the reality of power structures and continued adherence to the socialisation of Irish women to be "nice".*

Great summary, Fiona.

When it comes to so-called feminists in the public eye, I'd add:

• a cynical avoidance of the problems inherent in the trans agenda in order to protect and pursue self interests.

@FionaMacCool
thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2020/transitioning-to-a-medical-scandal/

This link from another thread is very interesting and would be useful if you are contacting your TDs.
How could anyone would read this very informative article and still vote to extend the GRA to under 18s. But, of course they will anyway I'm afraid.

Not at the crossroads per se. The success has been per Dentons guide. Capture at state and legislative level with the tiniest signal of a ripple as possible. Concealment.

Legislation was influenced and the Gender Recognition Act 2015 was born. There wasn't public discussion on that, yet it is now the law of the land. Now the tip toe of the Gender Recognition (Amendment) Bill. That is much more access to power than having to negotiate with the little people in any shape or form. Make laws without bothering about or considering any impact on 50% of the population. You're right it is not discussed as people didn't even get to discuss it. The result is that a male who declares their wish to rape and murder women is placed amongst incarcerated women who cannot remove themselves if they are distressed. Somewhere a male who does not wish harm women will not be placed if they don't profess a self 'ID'.

Oh yes, and the Law Society chappie said something along the lines that it wasn't anticipated. Wow. If something so elementary was not anticipated, women are really in trouble with the less obvious impacts.

How long did women have to fight for access to contraception? Ban on divorce? Go back to illegal incarceration of women in Magdalen laundries. Where the Gardaí returned the women who 'escaped'. Women not tried by any court or committed by any doctor. Tentacles to prevent the Mother and Child. Free healthcare for children. Not aligned with the Principle of Subsidiarity. Yes, there was provision in health and education which the state didn't shape take responsibility for. That doesn't mean if you commit abuses you get a pass for it. And the buck stops with the State for not ensuring the rights and safety for all it's citizens.

The real power is at State level and influence on legislation which governs peoples lives

You now have a Senator (Labour) who has just publicly thrown the slur 'Terfs' at women. My impression is that this is just another in a long line of people who retained their special ire for all those generations of women who have campaigned for hard won women's rights. Just another version of the C word applied to women.

There has been state and media collusion in reporting about danger to women. Women (who were the ones who were/are the targets for rape and murder) are diminished again and were told to look out for a teenage girl, weren't they?

One doesn't need to be defensive or only look at it through the prism of how Ireland looks in relation to other countries. That is part of the problem as the 'retrogressive progressives' are tripping over themselves to look woke. Forgetting about principle or substance, but is it 'in' and how will it look? Legislators shouldn't be like children, who are vulnerable to peer pressure and so do not make good choices and are easily influenced by the 'in' group. A truly progressive and equal society would keep their head while all around are losing theirs! How about being good legislators who defend the right of all their citizens? Not calling women 'Terfs' like that lovely Senator. A familiar replay of another time where it would have been other misognyistic words or diminishment. No where is perfect. However, I would be looking to cooperate where women are successfully defending their rights and revealing rather than concealing. That is good for Irish women. That is where my solidarity lies. Workers Women of the world, unite!

I think if England hasn't been so against same sex marriage, they'd have this crap now too. The early adoption of gender recognition meant it playbook wasn't yet cute enough and 'sex' was already a protected characteristic.

Also, the UK had the warning of examples of the later woke adopters like Ireland and Canada to show how women's rights would be simply ignored and f*cked over given half a chance, without their biological sex being protected in law. Goodness, the lobbyists like Crispin Blunt must be raging about the stumbling block of protection of 'sex' as a thing and the warning signals other countries have given off to women wrt self ID. Even with that luck, Britain is not free from the issues faced by women in other countries.

@Cailleach1
Excellent posts.

God forbid you should now mention the work that the religious orders did at a time when our new-born state was not able to afford it, nor did the state have the structures to provide (education, health etc etc)

Mmm. I was doing historical research into the early 20th Century in Ireland and I found 1940s articles in the magazine of a teachers' union complaining about how the Catholic Church was taking schools over.

Things aren't always what they seem

@MarDhea

*Irish feminism prioritising the Trans agenda to the disadvantage of other women is either indicative of

• the ongoing misogyny which has put on a different dress (deliberate irony) or
• a naiveté about the reality of power structures and continued adherence to the socialisation of Irish women to be "nice".*

Great summary, Fiona.

When it comes to so-called feminists in the public eye, I'd add:

• a cynical avoidance of the problems inherent in the trans agenda in order to protect and pursue self interests.

You mean these faux feminists are using a kind of strategic ignorance about the dangers of the GRA? Depressing if so. Another reason it is hard to speak out is simply that Ireland is a small country. All these academics , journalists , broadcasters and trades unionists know each other. Once you are persona non grata...

On the plus side, the responses to her tweet are very encouraging. I was expecting a pile on by the usual suspects. Maybe they'll be along yet