Irish Labour senator uses TERF as a slur

[XXSex]

How offensive.

“TERFs can go suck coal” apparently
twitter.com/hoeyannie/status/1315326910453383170?s=21

Annie Hoey linking Polish women struggle for abortion rights to trans rights!!

www.facebook.com/HoeyAnnie/videos/661754514399514/

I am astounded it was a Labour Party Senator that posted that Tweet (and followed up on it on election night). Telling her fellow women they “can go suck...” anything is deeply misogynistic. She chose to use the transwomen are women mantra, when she could have used transmen are men. Centring the men as usual. Honestly I would expect something that crass and unprofessional from PBP or someone.

Has she apologised or has Labour commented?

She’s just stood up in the Seanad to discuss how awful women are, being mean to her because of the fact that she’s LGBT.

No love, you started it by calling women TERFs.

Is it a preemptive strike because she’s aware of what she did? Or is it a poor me, look at everyone being mean because I have no self awareness?

It certainly is sowing the seeds for the new GRA and anyone who questions this is a “bad actor” and want to silence her/those like her from insisting others to live their truth.

Oh and we’ve had no problems since we’ve brought in self ID

Link to it here on Twitter twitter.com/hoeyannie/status/1324767425590677510?s=21

Bad actor? Only bad actor is you Annie! Telling women to go suck... whatever! Calling women names!

I want that Tweet read into the record of the Seanad, who can we write to to question her on it? She can stand up and spout lies when she is the one spreading the hate, well she can be accountable for it.

One thing I've seen Irish genderists trying to do is construct a narrative whereby Ireland is the new, young, liberated nation - liberated from the church, independent in Europe, no more troubles, no more sexual guilt, gay marriage, trans-happy, comfortable in its own skin.

In contrast to the colonial brexit-ridden anti EU stuck in the past British terfery.

It's a good narrative. It needs to be countered.

MarDhea "I see this view a lot on MN, authority of the church being replaced by authority of gender ideology, but I just don't buy it........
If it were true, then the former bastions of the church's cultural power and intimidation (small communities, particularly rural areas and country towns) would now be the bastions of genderism."
I dont really agree with you there; I think, if they knew what was going on, then you would see push-back from the mainstream.

Unfortunately, I dont think the majority of Irish women or men, know what is actually going on.
That's where the mainstream media have been very weak.

If Self I'd is extended to under 18s this will create problems for schools. Trans teenagers can legally become the opposite gender.
But as Annie Hoey has said there have been no problems with the Gra , so what could possibly go wrong?

Ironically, the reason trans rights have such a following among irish feminists is largely due to the momentum carrying over from the gay marriage and abortion rights referenda campaigns in a (misguided) attempt to ‘be nice’.

I can easily picture this in my mind.

I think the trans issue is particularly tricky in places where the secularization process is fairly recent and"traditional religious values" are still very much within living memory, because any attempt to push back on the trans issue is assumed by other people to be part and parcel of religious homophobia.

Who do we write to, when a bill is going through the Seanad?

@7Days

Who do we write to, when a bill is going through the Seanad?

If you go on the Oireachtas website you can see the full list of Senators. I get the feeling that Annie Hoey or David Norris might not be too receptive to your concern though.

Thank you WeatherWarning

That's where the mainstream media have been very weak.

I don't know if they've been weak so much as they've been pursuing a genderist agenda they know the majority of people would oppose if they actually knew about it and understood what the demands of the agenda are. They are deliberately under reporting this issue in order to ensure that the wider public don't know what's going on.

Uniquely among movements which purport to be progressive, this movement depends for its success on people not knowing about it.

The media hasn't been weak. It's complicit.

I think the trans issue is particularly tricky in places where the secularization process is fairly recent and"traditional religious values" are still very much within living memory, because any attempt to push back on the trans issue is assumed by other people to be part and parcel of religious homophobia.

Yes. Hence the American attitudes as well.

Here is an interesting speech by Claire Chandler, Australian Senator.

A couple of points really stick out.

'Given that men's and women's sports specifically exists to cater for the biological differences between the two sexes.. '

"When I asked the CEO of Sports Australia if he thought young girls might be deterred from playing sport if they are competing against males, he replied "I don't have an opinion on that".
Quite extraordinary that an Agency would release a 50 page document suggesting you don't have to be a woman to play women's sports, and not to have turned to your mind to what that means for women.'

'When I asked the Sex Discrimination Commissioner about people of the opposite sex using women's and girls' changing rooms, she told me that she didn't accept the premise of my question (me: nah 'cos XX ain't a material reality with rights attached, who knows what they are?) and that the Act contained location specific exemptions supporting single sex toilets and change rooms.'

Two months later in response to a written question, on notice, Ms Jenkins corrected the record to say there is no such exemption for male or female only changing rooms or toilets in the Sex Discrimination Act.'

So don't give a toss how 'excluding' any of this may be for women. Which is why there are were women's sports to begin with. Also, how Jennings rubbished away concerns and claimed there were of course sex exemptions in the Act. So diminish and reduce and flick away women's concerns. What you say to bat women doesn't even need to be true or factual. Even if a Senator in a formal setting. Only brought to book because the Senator asking the questions had the power to put them on notice and they had to respond in black and white! When you have to put in on paper, you can't dodge so easily without repercussions.

Also, Claire Chandler pointed how nobody voted for the diminishment of women's sex based rights. These actors who have been so busy diminishing women across many countries evasive of where, what or who if asked.

Yet now the law in many lands and women being diminished and rights eroded.

@ScreamingBeans

That's where the mainstream media have been very weak.

I don't know if they've been weak so much as they've been pursuing a genderist agenda they know the majority of people would oppose if they actually knew about it and understood what the demands of the agenda are. They are deliberately under reporting this issue in order to ensure that the wider public don't know what's going on.

Uniquely among movements which purport to be progressive, this movement depends for its success on people not knowing about it.

The media hasn't been weak. It's complicit.

I’m with @ScreamingBeans on this - I know lots of journalists and worked in media. They are not stupid. They know. And there is no way in hell any of the “progressive’ female journalists will come out and talk about what this means for women.

I agree AnnasGirl

How do you make sure a conversation happens - maybe we are wrong and everything will be grand, but I'd like someone to at least explain why they think that's likely.

And I am sick sick sick that Irish media is gone the same tribal way as the rest of the Anglo sphere media. Guilt by association, polarisation, this whole notion you must be full on Gran Torino to even think to ask certain questions.

The scariest thing is - not just in Ireland - is the way they are framing anti paedophilia etc as being a partisan issue. Its lazy and reductive, as well as downright scary.

Yes. It is especially troubling for a person holding that office to just brush away the main objection and disgust for the Irish Minister for Children's association with Peter Tatchell as being linked to Homophobia. Nice try Roderic, but slippery and dishonest.

No, it is based firmly in a disgust for Tatchell's presentation of paedophilia as anything other than abuse and exploitation. In my opinion, the couching of the conversation to normalise the sexualisation of minors (aka children) as an issue of 'gay rights' or 'children's rights' (sic). Adults being able to legally 'have sex' (which is now rape and abuse in law) with them as some sort of a right for the minors involved. He discussed children from 9 having sexual relations with adults. In fairness, Tatchell says that his opening up of this discussion on how children can get pleasure from sex with adults is not lobbying or support for it. Or try to normalise it. Nope.

I don't think the perspective of how an adult successfully grooming children might not always be exploitative of the child was a defence in all the scandals of the past. Would it be a defence now? Could anyone really be successful in trying to present Paedophilia as about 'rights' for children?

Is there a way to get something debate in the Dáil like there is in English parliament? A petition system?

XXSex There is a system but it's on hiatus. Looks like it should have been reconvened when Mehole and Leo finally formed a government, but it hasn't happened yet.
https://petitions.oireachtas.ie//*

I case anyone is wondering why the thread suddenly features deletions, it is because I used a phrase that apparently broke talk guidelines so my post and others that quoted it were deleted. My first ever deletion!

It appears we can say "trans children", but if we add an -ing onto the end of the word "trans" in that phrase, it will be deemed "not conductive to civil discussion". It's interesting that at least one person reported the post, but of course we are aware that everything on this board is monitored by external individuals.

I'd repost with an alternative phrasing (esp since others found my post useful), but unfortunately I don't have a copy of the text. If anyone else does, please dm me.

MNHQ this post is purely for informational purposes for the benefit of other posters, so they are aware that yet another phrase has become verboten and they can make sure they don't inadvertently use it in their posts. (It becomes Kafka-esque if we can't specify what must be avoided yet somehow are obligated to avoid it.)

I cant remember what you said MarDhea, but someone must have a hair-trigger sensitivity to insult if something you said was deleted.

Weatherwarning:

If you go on the Oireachtas website you can see the full list of Senators.
I get the feeling that Annie Hoey or David Norris might not be too receptive to your concern though.

Laughing away at the irony. They profess to be big on 'rights', don't they. Well maybe just not women's (only half the population and which the State has treated abysmally). One Senator basically announcing that women should STFU if they are warbling on about their human rights. You see, that is how the Senator can signal they aren't to be regarded an an ordinary woman (read Terf) and therefore ignored.

22% women TD's and 33% Senators. Maybe less in Senate as Annie is non-Binary and therefore more special than any common garden variety of woman ever.

So it's your fault my deathless prose has been deleted! Still I'm sure MN are just trying to look after us , mar dhea.