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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

10yo son accused of being transphobic, help me write to school

424 replies

flowery · 03/11/2020 10:09

I am trying not to be too angry, but my 10yo came home yesterday saying I'd be pleased to know what he said about transgender at school. It was a discussion amongst his friends, not with the teacher present and not as part of a lesson, and he'd said it was not possible to change sex.

Apparently one of his friends said he was transphobic for saying so. He doesn't seem worried and doesn't want me to make a fuss, and it doesn't sound like it was said to him in a nasty way. But I'm not happy.

I've got no reason to think the school is teaching any gender woo stuff, I don't think they're particularly 'woke', but I want to check. I'm also not sure what to do about the accusation. I don't want my son to feel he can't express a view or say biological sex is real without someone else accusing him of any kind of 'phobia'.

He's not shy and is popular and quite a strong character, but that's not the point.

I have the new government guidance so I am planning to write to his teacher, probably in a 'not making a fuss don't want to get anyone into trouble' kind of way, just asking how they teach this subject and reiterating that I would like to be sure that it is clear to children that someone disagreeing with them isn't a phobia, that it is is not literally possible to change sex, and that differing opinions are perfectly fine.

I seem to remember someone somewhere linking to some kind of table done by the NHS where it says it's not possible to change biological sex. I can't find it, does anyone know what it was and perhaps have a link?

Plus any thoughts on how best to handle it would also be appreciated.

OP posts:
Helmetbymidnight · 03/11/2020 12:28

Zebras have 4 legs.
My children don't feel the need to exclaim this.

They don't need to 'exclaim' this because there aren't people constantly pushing the idea at them that zebras have as many legs as they like.

"Provocative facts."
Brilliant.

I'm with you, OP. This would piss me off. I don't know if I'd write to the school though.

queenofknives · 03/11/2020 12:29

Agree with pp it's not really a matter for the school? You run the risk of exaggerating/exacerbating the matter, when all that really happened is a normal disgreement between kids. I don't think an adult intervention is needed.

Helmetbymidnight · 03/11/2020 12:29

Do you talk about trans issues a lot at home for him to know your views

We talk about Trump, Boris, Covid and yes, trans issues. I think my kids know my views on all of these. Is this very surprising to you?

Gloschick · 03/11/2020 12:31

Kids pick up terms and try them out, sometimes not particularly accurately. Eg I think both of my kids have accused me of being racist because I've said things like "I prefer Indian food to Chinese food". They don't get the subtlety of the meaning of the word. I wouldn't involve the teacher unless the teacher actually says something to your DC that you are unhappy about.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 03/11/2020 12:35

The opinion of the kid who called your son transphobic is no less valid than your sons opinion.

I bet you would soon kick off if the other kids parent complained about your sons view.

MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 12:42

Is the opinion of a child who says santa is real equally "valid" to one who knows he isn't?
Out of kindness I would not want my dc to tell another child they were wrong, but there are facts and there are opinions. The boy was right to say people cannot change sex.

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 12:42

People are able to change sex legally. You might dispute whether they can do it biologically, but your son was wrong at least in the legal sense.

That's a good point

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/11/2020 12:45

That's a good point

No it isn't. It's the "Gender Recognition Act" not the Sex Recognition Act. They haven't actually changed sex. Changing gender means that for most purposes you are treated as the opposite sex. But not all, see the exemptions in both the GRA and EA.

Flapjak · 03/11/2020 12:45

OP in the current climate i would comsider discussing with school. If another child had called your son racist, that could have some repercussions. Currently adults are being questioned by police if they publicly express facts about biology. A student in scotland was suspended for challenging/correcting a teacher on gender identity issues. I think that it would be helpful to know that your school has been stonewalled or mermaided and is not teaching children that they can change sex like clownfish, or they are unintentionally teaching harmful stereotypes under the illusion they are being progressive.

MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 12:47

The government info on gender recognition, including the form you fill in, refer to gender throughout. The word sex isn't there at all.

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 12:47

No it isn't

Well, that's me told lol Grin
I still think it is, as you may or may not agree with the comment, but there's no disputing the fact that you can legally change your sex even if you can't biologically change sex.

MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 12:48

Sorry I see Eresh has made my point already.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 03/11/2020 12:48

Is the opinion of a child who says santa is real equally "valid" to one who knows he isn't?

Santa isn't really a legal matter.

Ops son could get into real trouble if he expressed his views to someone who is transgender in future.

MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 12:50

I really hope you are joking, that a child would be "in trouble" for saying that biology doesn't change. What world do you want to live in?

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 12:50

The word sex isn't there at all

OK, fair enough, but it's still fact that you can legally be recognised as your gender if you're trans.
So a trans woman can legally be recognised as a woman, a trans man can legally be recognised as a man.
Regardless of whether the word sex is in there or not.

MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 12:53

So, the boy's statement that it isn't possible to change sex is entirely accurate. Maybe he should add on "but you can have your gender recognised as having changed if you go down the legal route, though you'd need a definition of gender first to make sense of it"

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/11/2020 12:55

but there's no disputing the fact that you can legally change your sex even if you can't biologically change sex.

Yes there is. It's a legal fiction, which doesn't hold true in certain circumstances. If it did there would be no exemptions for primogeniture or becoming a catholic priest or whatever, no single sex services permitted.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/11/2020 12:56

Maybe he should add on "but you can have your gender recognised as having changed if you go down the legal route, though you'd need a definition of gender first to make sense of it"

Quite.

waltzingparrot · 03/11/2020 12:58

I would mention this to the teacher, gently in writing, taking the tack ' have they broached this subject in class, because a playground debate has thrown up some confusion and inaccuracies.

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 12:58

Yes there is. It's a legal fiction

Even if in your eyes it's "a legal fiction" - doesn't stop it being legal.

needanewidea · 03/11/2020 12:58

@DemolitionBarbie

I agree with *@JenniferSantoro*

People are able to change sex legally. You might dispute whether they can do it biologically, but your son was wrong at least in the legal sense.

Trans people exist, whether you like it or not - your son needs to learn that in an age-appropriate way and understand that everyone is deserving of respect. You can tell him there's debate about what it means to be male or female but mainly - get a life and stop fretting about 10 year olds' playground conversations.

This is not true.

The Gender Recognition Act allows the legal fiction that people are the other sex in certain circumstances.

The Equality Act gives provisions to protect people from discrimination on the basis of protected characteristics in the workplace or when buying goods or receiving services. One of those protected characteristics is gender reassignment.

There is nothing in the GRA or the Equality Act to say that it's unlawful for an individual to state biological facts. That's a huge misunderstanding of the law.

There's a popular misconception that it's illegal for individuals to misgender other people. That's simply not true. The Equality Act does NOT cover personal conversations outside of a professional context. And it certainly doesn't cover 10 year olds!

Trans people surely exist. But the idea that they've actually changed sex is faith-based, not factual. People are entitled to believe it in the same way Catholics are entitled to believe the communion wine literally becomes the blood of Christ. It's immoral to force the rest of us to believe it though, absent any evidence.

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 12:59

For clarity, "it" being legal for trans woman to be seen as women, and trans men as being men.

Cantthinkofausename · 03/11/2020 13:01

I think you need to calm down Confused

needanewidea · 03/11/2020 13:01

@Quaagars

Yes there is. It's a legal fiction

Even if in your eyes it's "a legal fiction" - doesn't stop it being legal.

The GRA and the Equality Act do NOT cover personal beliefs or interactions though.

The Equality Act protects people from discrimination on the basis of protected characteristics (e.g. gender reassignment) in the work place or when receiving goods or services.

It does NOT say "this person has literally changed sex so everyone must treat them as such in all circumstances".

You are misunderstanding the law if that's what you think it says. (Or possibly being manipulated by one of the many lobbying groups who are happy to have people believe this).

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 13:04

There's a popular misconception that it's illegal for individuals to misgender other people. That's simply not true

You're right, it's not true that it's illegal to misgender people, people can make mistakes.
Where does it stop being accidental misgendering and deliberate, constant harassment of trans people though?
Blurry lines

But the idea that they've actually changed sex is faith-based, not factual
I agree with that bit though, as it isn't possible to biologically change sex, that's fact.
Trans people are legally allowed to live as their preferred gender though, however much some people on here might not like it.