10yo son accused of being transphobic, help me write to school

[flowery]

I am trying not to be too angry, but my 10yo came home yesterday saying I'd be pleased to know what he said about transgender at school. It was a discussion amongst his friends, not with the teacher present and not as part of a lesson, and he'd said it was not possible to change sex.

Apparently one of his friends said he was transphobic for saying so. He doesn't seem worried and doesn't want me to make a fuss, and it doesn't sound like it was said to him in a nasty way. But I'm not happy.

I've got no reason to think the school is teaching any gender woo stuff, I don't think they're particularly 'woke', but I want to check. I'm also not sure what to do about the accusation. I don't want my son to feel he can't express a view or say biological sex is real without someone else accusing him of any kind of 'phobia'.

He's not shy and is popular and quite a strong character, but that's not the point.

I have the new government guidance so I am planning to write to his teacher, probably in a 'not making a fuss don't want to get anyone into trouble' kind of way, just asking how they teach this subject and reiterating that I would like to be sure that it is clear to children that someone disagreeing with them isn't a phobia, that it is is not literally possible to change sex, and that differing opinions are perfectly fine.

I seem to remember someone somewhere linking to some kind of table done by the NHS where it says it's not possible to change biological sex. I can't find it, does anyone know what it was and perhaps have a link?

Plus any thoughts on how best to handle it would also be appreciated.

"There is insufficient detail in your OP to determine whether your son was indeed being transphobic or not."

As I said in the OP, he just said it was not possible to literally change sex. So no, he obviously wasn't being transphobic. I believe him when he tells me what he says, as should you without any reason not to.

If pretending it is possible to change sex is what would be necessary to keep friendships, those aren't the type of friendships that are valuable in life.

And I don't have a doctrine. How odd.

@MistressIggi

Late 30s you're probably ok Remember anything other than total capitulation to self ID is viewed as transphobic, though obviously that is not the correct definition and I know you'd be as annoyed about actual transphobia as anyone else.

I absolutely would, you're right. I have no tolerance whatsoever for any actual phobic views or actions, and my children know that and have been raised the same way.

This thread has been really helpful, thank you everyone.

I need to get on with some work now so I'm off, not ignoring anyone else who responds.

@flowery

Well obviously if he just came out with that sentence randomly, he wasn't being transphobic.

The doctrine is clear, your son told you that you would be proud that he had learnt it.

I still think that you should definitely tell the school, write to the governors, maybe do some flyers.

By all means, make the entire school have a discussion so that everyone can agree with your doctrine. Make it so

By doctrine do you mean biological fact? Can we get everyone to agree on it, cos that would be useful

@TheOrigRights

I'm pretty amazed that 10yo kids have a proper understanding of what it all means tbh.

Is it something you discuss at home a lot?

My 10 year old doesn’t have a clue what all this means.

I agree with @JenniferSantoro

People are able to change sex legally. You might dispute whether they can do it biologically, but your son was wrong at least in the legal sense.

Trans people exist, whether you like it or not - your son needs to learn that in an age-appropriate way and understand that everyone is deserving of respect. You can tell him there's debate about what it means to be male or female but mainly - get a life and stop fretting about 10 year olds' playground conversations.

Well my DC do not come home and tell me how proud I would be of them for stating a non loaded "fact"

But I don't use my children to spread my views, i let them form their own and discuss with them where they might go wrong.

I would have perhaps advised my son that expressing his opinion, whilst valid, was not always a necessity, as it can make his life more difficult than necessary, or hurt people who hold different views unnecessarily.

I have educated my children about when it is appropriate to state their views and when doing so might not be so appropriate.

My children don't feel the need to boast about deliberately provocative facts they managed to squeeze out today. I'm glad.

If it's anything like DDs' old school they don't touch on trans issues at all. The sex education video they were shown (last year for DD2) was from the early 00s and didn't even reference homosexual relationships let alone transgender people.

He has every right to say he thinks that’s a transphobic comment, that is him expressing his opionion.

Er - like calling someone homophobic, racist, sexist - when it is not true is ‘just expressing an opinion? In another world it is libel - but of course everything is transphobic these days.

I would have a quiet word with the teacher.

I wonder what message you give him at home for him to come him and say you’d be pleased with him saying a person can’t change sex

Please let us know of the miracle whereby a human being has actually changed sex PP. Would love to know.

OP - get rid off all those bigoted biology books AT ONCE. How dare you express biological essentialism facts and truth at home.

S111n20

I have an 11 yo and he is familiar with the term and what it means, but this may be in part because my 21 yo son has a friend who is F2M transgender and while it's not something we jabber on about, he is open about it. He's just grown up with it.

My children don't feel the need to boast about deliberately provocative facts they managed to squeeze out today.

That human beings can’t change sex? Truly nasty provocative facts... literal violence.

I haven't even particularly talked to DD1 (15) about transgender issues. It's a bit of a cross that bridge when I come to it issue for me, and not something a ten year old needs to have their views all present and correct on as if they are a politician going on Question Time.

A ten year old doesn’t just develop these views without input from someone.

Quite, where did the other 10 year old develop the false belief that it's possible to change sex?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

A ten year old doesn’t just develop these views without input from someone.

Quite, where did the other 10 year old develop the false belief that it's possible to change sex?

Exactly.

Looking at this from a feminist perspective, I find it a bit rude sometimes if men point out say that statistically men do better at sport than women. Often fat, unfit men who can't run for a bus like making this point.

It may be technically accurate in terms of the top sports woman v the top sports man in anything that requires speed, strength etc but isn't it a bit annoying to have your attention drawn to it, and potentially offensive and sexist depending on how it is said?

BMA recent policy on transgender patients

Going back upthread, I’m not sure I’d use the British Medical Association as a beacon of help, were you to speak with the school, which—having read the full thread—it appears you are not.

For one thing, they use the word Cis. No.

That advice aside, the most sensible posts in this thread were from the teachers. Thank you for your input.

Finally, why do some posters believe that stating facts and sharing opinions with our own children is indoctrination? All families “indoctrinate” their children in one way or another (religion, politics, finances, work ethic, nutrition) with daily demonstrations and sometimes conversations.

Those claiming to leave their children to make up their own minds...? That’s a naive claim in terms of child rearing. I don’t believe any parent in history has managed that.

Honestly I'd ignore and wouldn't involve the school. What one 10yo says to another in the playground when it's not said in a nasty way......I just don't think the teacher should get involved

This - two kids in the playground, not part of a lesson, just kids talking.
Nothing to do with school.
Or do you just want him to be agreed with at all times?
That's life coming across different opinions.

I'm another who is intrigued that some posters think that knowing there are 2 biological sexes is something that could be construed as an opinion, rather than fact. A 10 year old will have started to learn some biology at school. Most of them won't have learned about the piece of legal fiction created by the Gender recognition act.

It is quite simply not transphobic to know there are 2 biological sexes. There are plenty of trans people who are open about this too. (Well, I'd argue most people know there are 2 sexes, but some are willing to say otherwise). Knowing this fact has nothing to do with denying the existence of trans people. But saying this fact is transphobic does quite a lot to trivialise the notion of transphobia.

Feels like you must discuss this frequently with your son if he knows you’d be happy to hear what he said.

Don’t write to the school it was a discussion between friends. It’s a non issue.

Zebras have 4 legs.

My children don't feel the need to exclaim this.

Nor do they expect me to be proud that they did.

The indoctrination is in the expectation. OP son expected her to be proud that he met her expectation of pointing this random fact out.

@IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2

when we were younger we threw the word homophones around like there was no tomorrow..

I sat next to a lad at school who was a homonym.

Different times, nobody said owt.

I'd want to know if gender ideology was being presented as fact by the school, so I think you're doing the right thing to speak to the school.

A word of caution though - I spoke to my DS's school when he was 6 as I was concerned he was coming home talking about Jesus and other religious things as if they were fact. We're atheists and while I'm very happy for my DC to learn about religions I don't want a school to teach religious ideas as fact. I shared my concerns that DS was getting these idea from school and asked what was being taught. The teacher said she's also an atheist and it certainly wasn't from her, most likely from the girl he was often partnered with for work, who has a very religious family.

I felt silly for assuming it was the school.

So, go gently would be my advice!

Id encourage your son to gently push back if it happens again. “Can you explain what’s transphobic about saying you can’t change sex? Even the surgeries aren’t called sex changes anymore...”

A lot of people have a knee jerk response to anything that sounds critical of the idea that TW are identical to women.

Pretty nuts that it’s 10 year olds now but we all know kids will pick up on parents political views as gospel. Important your kid is engaging so good for him.

If a teacher gets involved and Censures your child get that pen/keyboard out.

Perhaps I was not clear. It's not that someone disagreed with him. I am of course fine with that, and with him hearing alternative views. I'm not an idiot. What I am not fine with is him being accused of being transphobic

Just seen this - how is that the school's fault, though?
They can't police kids talking to each other in the playground, he will come across views other than his (and yours!)
It also jumped out at me that he came home telling you that you'd be pleased with what he said.
Why? Do you talk about trans issues a lot at home for him to know your views, let alone that you'd be pleased?

Not you, but massive eye roll at this - but of course everything is transphobic these days
Sounds like the new version of "Can't bloody say owt nowadays, political correctness Gawn Mad! Mad, I tell yer!"