10yo son accused of being transphobic, help me write to school

[flowery]

I am trying not to be too angry, but my 10yo came home yesterday saying I'd be pleased to know what he said about transgender at school. It was a discussion amongst his friends, not with the teacher present and not as part of a lesson, and he'd said it was not possible to change sex.

Apparently one of his friends said he was transphobic for saying so. He doesn't seem worried and doesn't want me to make a fuss, and it doesn't sound like it was said to him in a nasty way. But I'm not happy.

I've got no reason to think the school is teaching any gender woo stuff, I don't think they're particularly 'woke', but I want to check. I'm also not sure what to do about the accusation. I don't want my son to feel he can't express a view or say biological sex is real without someone else accusing him of any kind of 'phobia'.

He's not shy and is popular and quite a strong character, but that's not the point.

I have the new government guidance so I am planning to write to his teacher, probably in a 'not making a fuss don't want to get anyone into trouble' kind of way, just asking how they teach this subject and reiterating that I would like to be sure that it is clear to children that someone disagreeing with them isn't a phobia, that it is is not literally possible to change sex, and that differing opinions are perfectly fine.

I seem to remember someone somewhere linking to some kind of table done by the NHS where it says it's not possible to change biological sex. I can't find it, does anyone know what it was and perhaps have a link?

Plus any thoughts on how best to handle it would also be appreciated.

its depressing af to think that kids are accusing ecah other if transphobia....

I wouldnt write to the school OP about this incident but I would write to ask what they're being taught around sex and gender on a broader level

when we were younger we threw the word homophones around like there was no tomorrow
it didn't mean much- we were too young for it to mean anything substantial.

I get what you're doing but if your son causes some sort of class discussion on trans issues because of your email then it could cause him problems. i would stay out of it this time, if it becomes a bigger problem then I would go to the school

@TheOrigRights

I'm pretty amazed that 10yo kids have a proper understanding of what it all means tbh.

Is it something you discuss at home a lot?

We don't discuss it a lot, no. And I think part of the issue is that 10yos don't have a proper understanding of what it all means. And nor should they really.

I've been clear with my two that it is not literally possible to change sex, but that some people feel they have a gender identity that they don't feel 'matches' their sex, and they might 'identify' as the opposite sex and might change their name or how they dress as a result, and that there's nothing wrong with that if it makes them feel comfortable.

That's all completely factual, obviously. I thought that would be all he'd need at this age - I didn't see accusations of transphobia coming his way in year 6.

He does also know that expressing the fact that changing sex isn't possible comes at a cost for some people, and that there are many people who argue that changing sex is possible.

I've also expressed my view that gender stereotypes are harmful, especially for girls, and when he's come home with comments about girls' hairstyles or similar, I've challenged him on it and said girls can have short hair if they like, that type of thing.

I don't think either he nor his friend have any in depth awareness of the nature of gender dysphoria or anything in that level of detail. I also don't think his friend would have meant it in the same way an adult making the same accusation of another adult would have done.

But if a 10yo calls another 10yo homophobic, that would be concerning, and this is the same. Or it is to me anyway!

I teach year 6.
Often chn throw these words around with no idea what they mean as they've seen them on the news/YouTube or whatever.
The curriculum is extremely clear in Y6 so look there if you want to see what's being taught, but I've never come across a (state) primary school that address or teaches about these issues at any deep level. There is a limit on what we can say and we shouldn't deviate from it (and should instead explain that they will be able to learn more about it when they are older).
If you do raise it with the teacher, the teacher will feel feel obliged to discuss it with the other child's parents so just be aware of that. We've had this scenario and the conversation is more about using words an unkind way rather than exploring the deeper meaning of the words. 99% of the time the child doesn't know what it means. 10 years ago it was 'You're gay, lesbian' and now it's often 'you're racist, a terrorist, homophobic, tranaphobic', reflecting the change in vocabulary circulating in culture and what they are exposed to.

Yeah I'd put the pen away. The teacher hasn't contacted you of expressed any concerns. I would say "some people do consider it transphobic but personally I dont agree. I think discussion is important" and leave it at that. Whatever school is or isn't teaching isnt going to impact as much as what home teaches. Keep your powder dry until you really need it

@JenniferSantoro

I wonder what message you give him at home for him to come home and say you’d be pleased with him saying a person couldn’t change sex. It sounds very much like the narrative you’re feeding him at home is transphobic, rather that neutral. A ten year old doesn’t just develop these views without input from someone.

How does one discuss the subject neutrally then? Am I supposed to say some people believe it is possible to change sex and other people believe it isn't?

I prefer to stick to the facts. It is a fact that it is not possible to change sex, it's not a 'view' that has to be developed.

@Ellovera2

I teach year 6. Often chn throw these words around with no idea what they mean as they've seen them on the news/YouTube or whatever. The curriculum is extremely clear in Y6 so look there if you want to see what's being taught, but I've never come across a (state) primary school that address or teaches about these issues at any deep level. There is a limit on what we can say and we shouldn't deviate from it (and should instead explain that they will be able to learn more about it when they are older). If you do raise it with the teacher, the teacher will feel feel obliged to discuss it with the other child's parents so just be aware of that. We've had this scenario and the conversation is more about using words an unkind way rather than exploring the deeper meaning of the words. 99% of the time the child doesn't know what it means. 10 years ago it was 'You're gay, lesbian' and now it's often 'you're racist, a terrorist, homophobic, tranaphobic', reflecting the change in vocabulary circulating in culture and what they are exposed to.

that's really helpful, thank you

@JenniferSantoro

I wonder what message you give him at home for him to come home and say you’d be pleased with him saying a person couldn’t change sex. It sounds very much like the narrative you’re feeding him at home is transphobic, rather that neutral. A ten year old doesn’t just develop these views without input from someone.

Is it not true then Jennifer? Can human beings literally change their biological sex?

Is that truly what you believe?

"As an aside, I’m actually stunned that we are now in a position where we have to reference an official document in order to back up the known truth that humans can’t change sex."

You're right, it's totally bonkers.

Why the hell would you write to the school over this? You come across as someone who is just itching for a fight, and who is fine to cause your child issues to get it. You need to grow up and not use your child for your agenda.

The school was not involved in this conversation. Your son has every right to express his opinion, so does the other boy. He has every right to say he thinks that’s a transphobic comment, that is him expressing his opionion. Neither are old enough to even understand the issue, they’re just parroting what they’ve been told at home.

Why would you even want the teacher to be aware of these conversations? Why are you spiking for a fight for no reason?

Is there anywhere else you could take out your hobby that doesn’t involve causing issues for your child?

This discussion is really helpful. I was very keen not to overreact, but also to protect my son.

I think I will gently enquire how the subject is taught, but won't mention this conversation to the teacher, even in a 'don't do anything' way.

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy

Why the hell would you write to the school over this? You come across as someone who is just itching for a fight, and who is fine to cause your child issues to get it. You need to grow up and not use your child for your agenda.

The school was not involved in this conversation. Your son has every right to express his opinion, so does the other boy. He has every right to say he thinks that’s a transphobic comment, that is him expressing his opionion. Neither are old enough to even understand the issue, they’re just parroting what they’ve been told at home.

Why would you even want the teacher to be aware of these conversations? Why are you spiking for a fight for no reason?

Is there anywhere else you could take out your hobby that doesn’t involve causing issues for your child?

Reading comprehension not your strong point then...?!

when we were younger we threw the word homophones around like there was no tomorrow..

I sat next to a lad at school who was a homonym.

Different times, nobody said owt.

You come across as someone who is just itching for a fight..

Unlike you.

As a teacher, I would suggest a watchful waiting approach. Either this won't be mentioned again, or his classmates will have a think about their own response, or they will bring up the transphobic line again. Only if this happens would I contact the school. Keep in mind that his teacher is likely to be young and woke with regard to this issue. You might get lucky but chances aren't good! He hasn't said anything wrong and the people calling him transphobic are being silly. I would just reinforce that with him for now.

if I were "itching for a fight" I would be complaining, either to the teacher or the relevant parent. I have absolutely no intention of doing either.

Leave it.

It was a discussion between two 10-year-olds and did not involve the teacher. As a PP stated the broader point is that your son is learning that other people have different points of view to him.

What you now need to teach your son is when someone accuses him of something, to politely and calmly ask them for an explanation.

As a broader point you don't want your son to become so entrenched in his views on subjects that he isn't willing to change his mind when presented with new or changing evidence. (Though in this case I suspect his 10 year old friend doesn't know the difference between gender and sex. )

@MistressIggi

As a teacher, I would suggest a watchful waiting approach. Either this won't be mentioned again, or his classmates will have a think about their own response, or they will bring up the transphobic line again. Only if this happens would I contact the school. Keep in mind that his teacher is likely to be young and woke with regard to this issue. You might get lucky but chances aren't good! He hasn't said anything wrong and the people calling him transphobic are being silly. I would just reinforce that with him for now.

thank you, again really helpful perspective

His teacher is a very sensible and experienced woman in, I think, her late thirties. She's been at this a while, and she's also known him for a few years. My guess is she's not overly 'woke', but obviously hard to know.

Late 30s you're probably ok
Remember anything other than total capitulation to self ID is viewed as transphobic, though obviously that is not the correct definition and I know you'd be as annoyed about actual transphobia as anyone else.

You say he said it's not possible to change sex. The point that may then arise in his discussions with other boys or in the school teaching is that the law says it is possible to change sex. From this law and the associated notion of rights and equality arises the guidance to treat trans people equally, to use correct terminology and basically not to be what would be deemed transphobic. That's what I expect they'd teach, if they teach about it. Is he aware of the distinction that is being made between: it is not possible to change sex / it is possible to change sex?

No harm in asking the school if they teach about it but be aware of possible interpretations: if you write asking how it is taught, what's the betting they will assume you are a concerned parent who wants it taught from the opposite position to your own? Or if you make plain the opposite point of view, that they won't think you are being phobic or your son is?

There is insufficient detail in your OP to determine whether your son was indeed being transphobic or not. In that who knows what he was responding to with that fact. I am glad he made you proud, he obviously wanted to do so, no matter how it subsequently impacts upon his peers and friendships. Well done.

By all means, make the entire school have a discussion so that everyone can agree with your doctrine. Make it so.

Not sure if this is relevant OP but my DS was once involved in something vaguely similar. DS is mixed race and a friend of his was accused of being racist towards him (by a member of staff at school!) There was a low key investigation in which DS said he didn’t think anything racist had taken place (the other child had mentioned his skin colour but not in a nasty way). The whole thing blew over but caused a huge amount of stress for the other child’s parents and also for my DS who hated all the fuss. My advice would be to say nothing at this point because these things can easily blow out of proportion.

You can ask how it is taught, but to be honest kids accuse each other of all kinds of things, it how they develop understanding and their own opinions. You son in the next few years will be called, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, mean and many more. Listen to kids on a bus on the way home and these are a few you here regularly. He wasnt upset by it, it was a conversation, it also does sound more that he wanted to impress you and it seems it worked. He needs to hear, read and see both sides to develop his own opinion.

"The point that may then arise in his discussions with other boys or in the school teaching is that the law says it is possible to change sex"

Yes of course, and I'm obviously fine with that - it is possible to change legal sex, again that is factual information. But obviously that doesn't literally change one's biological sex, and changing legal sex isn't achieved by just saying so anyway, and it's the distinction that is important.

You are right about possible interpretations when writing. I'm not overly concerned based on my knowledge of the school, but it's worth considering.

@JenniferSantoro

I wonder what message you give him at home for him to come home and say you’d be pleased with him saying a person couldn’t change sex. It sounds very much like the narrative you’re feeding him at home is transphobic, rather that neutral. A ten year old doesn’t just develop these views without input from someone.

Who regards it as a 'view' or 'narrative' that people can't change their sex?

I'd love to see the Science.