BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

[OhHolyJesus]

I mean I'm not surprised but Bitesize is used by schools through the country as a supposed reliable, unbiased source of education material.

mobile.twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1319025713475952641?fbclid=IwAR0rTBD2j5PKOeTKvYSSX90c4RUDmJDo7Zg613qnDBXNaAncv3J8epYWLSQ

You can complain here:

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint

Or email your MP and cc MPs Safe Schools Alliance on info@safeschoolsallianceuk.

In the tweet thread there are some people already complaining. I'm not a defund the BBC kind of person but I can see why license fee layers are questioning what the BBC are doing with their money (there is a website 'BBC complaints' that's all about biased Brexit coverage).

Datun
"Given this person has got nothing to say at all about women in a homeless shelter, who were subjected to sexual humiliation, or a woman small business owner, who is subjected to online harassment"

But there was someone with a name made up of a pair of initials and a date who was all over the thread about the small business owner being harassed, very firmly saying that woman was in the wrong and deserved it. Over and over and over again.

And let refuge workers and residents decide how best to manage that

Who is asking the residents what they want? Consistently research has found that female survivors value a female only space and female support.

This is actually quite pathetic. The people at the top of public funded organisations frequently are posh outsiders in these stupidly simplistic terms. They are often graduate only jobs populated by managerial class people that have no experience of front line working.

This. I wish LangCleg could give this the scathing treatment it deserves.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

This is actually quite pathetic. The people at the top of public funded organisations frequently are posh outsiders in these stupidly simplistic terms. They are often graduate only jobs populated by managerial class people that have no experience of front line working.

This. I wish LangCleg could give this the scathing treatment it deserves.

And fuck the people at the top of those organisatiosn. That's why I said workers and residents, not managers.

I suspect the beauty pageant speech is an example of "look over here, not over there! No, over HERE!"

And fuck the people at the top of those organisatiosn. That's why I said workers and residents, not managers.

If it weren't for the woke people at the top, and the threats to finding, I imagine more workers would feel that they were free to express any concerns they had. Because they have to do it anonymously at the moment.

Perhaps if women weren’t being socialised into being kind. If women’s work wasn’t seen as lesser. If women weren’t pushed into the default parent and carer role their lives would be better. What helps push them into those roles the same bloody stereotypes that TRA love. What helps keep them in those roles male bodies persons seeking to claim the few protections women have managed to secure. How safe do you think rights like maternity leave will be if the concept of woman is delinked from biology.

Funding not finding

Please do address the point about the Deptford People's Project, O Class Warrior.

hi jj, could you describe the middle class people please and why we are so horrid and also 'fucking tories' - why are tories so bad? I know some very nice hard working ones.

@MichelleofzeResistance

And let refuge workers and residents decide how best to manage that, not a bunch of posh outsiders sticking their nose into working class affairs.

Is it time to post that statement from the Deptford Women's Project again?

Because that was their entire issue, about highly entitled, highly privileged, highly educated students invading working class projects to take over the time and space to lecture the users, many in urgent immediate need, about gender, identity politics, the language needed to be learned and used, and that those students were the most oppressed of anyone using the project. It was let them eat caking of the highest order.

I was just thinking about posting about that project. I've been looking for the statement but I keep coming up with dead links. If you have it to hand I think it's definitely relevant here.

Someone posted it on another thread recently, will find and copy and paste here.

@jj1968

What exactly is your cause?

How about the guarantee of a refuge place in a male free space immediately for anyone who needs it? And let refuge workers and residents decide how best to manage that, not a bunch of posh outsiders sticking their nose into working class affairs. And let's work towards making refuges unnecessary and making the bastard responsible to e the one who loses his home? How about safe and humane prisons for everyone and more important putting less working class women in prison especially for non violent offences? In fact how about a completely new system that is less about punishing the poorest and only to protect us from truly dangerous people? How about a society with adequate social security so people aren't driven into mental ill health, poverty, and the associated risks of addiction and crime? How about safe accessible toilet provision that caters to everyone, including lone parents or those who have carer needs? How about increased funding for women's healthcare services and trans healthcare? How about no need for homeless hostels at all whether single sex or not because there are no homeless people? How about worrying about and fighting for the things our class desperately needs to live freely without need and with dignity for all without getting drawn into endless unwinnable arguments about pronouns and what words mean whilst middle class Tories pull our fucking strings.

How do you define 'male'?

And I note how zealously people keep telling women to stop trying to hang on to our provision, and our identities, because we should be working instead for a better world for all.

Here's a suggestion: every single trans person and trans org who is working to remove women's rights, for male validation, should stop doing that and instead: How about safe and humane prisons for everyone and more important putting less working class women in prison especially for non violent offences? In fact how about a completely new system that is less about punishing the poorest and only to protect us from truly dangerous people? How about a society with adequate social security so people aren't driven into mental ill health, poverty, and the associated risks of addiction and crime? How about safe accessible toilet provision that caters to everyone, including lone parents or those who have carer needs? How about increased funding for women's healthcare services and trans healthcare? How about no need for homeless hostels at all whether single sex or not because there are no homeless people? How about worrying about and fighting for the things our class desperately needs to live freely without need and with dignity for all without getting drawn into endless unwinnable arguments about pronouns and what words mean whilst middle class Tories pull our fucking strings.

Great. So why are you here, lecturing and hectoring women on our rights? Off you go, chop chop! Save the world for everyone, if it's so idiotic and selfish to focus on your own best interests trans rights will have no further interest for you. Will they?

Here's a quote from Lucy in the Guardian

"Community organiser Lucy McDonagh, who attended the event, said she had been labelled a bigot for asking questions about proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act. “Literally just asking a question if these changes could potentially affect women’s safe spaces is deemed as being transphobic. So lots of women, especially working class women, are scared to ask,” she said. “We have had to access this particular space because no one else has allowed us to speak about it. We are trying to find out about law, and we are trying to find out why women have been cut out of the conversation that statistically most affects them.”"

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/17/legal-challenge-to-labour-over-shortlists-and-transwomen?fbclid=IwAR1m7egr8itpFDCuAS76zQv8HAPCr29CnViEVEOQ5GOGyrknCgajNUN5kPA

I think a lot of Tories have their heart in the right place, it's often a difference of opinion as to how best to help

I think often they don't have the direct experience of poverty and lack of hope and opportunity which blinkers their approaches...

And fuck the people at the top of those organisatiosn. That's why I said workers and residents, not managers.

Women are the residents. For goodness sake. Women on these boards. One has literally just told you.

Or do you think that being raped, assaulted, controlled is confined to a certain 'type' of woman? Seriously. Go and take a look at the relationship board on here.

Your fellow transactivists are busy campaigning to get rape refuges defunded. Talk to them, instead of trying to get the women on here to do what you tell them.

From Rozwatching

See eg the Deptford People's Project
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203804-The-Deptford-People-Project-and-the-impact-of-self-ID-and-transactivism-on-working-class-women?pg=55^^
(Thanks to PencilsInSpace who reproduced the statement)^

"Statement from Working class community workers from Deptford. We are attending the women’s meeting at the House of Commons today. We would like to offer an explanation as to why this is necessary. See below

After many years of working at grass roots within our community we have recently been made aware of an issue that directly effects the working class and women in our area.

You must understand we are not graduate activists or or women’s rights campaigners. We are community workers and our concerns regarding changes to the GRA come from a lifetime of personal experience and having worked with some of the most marginalise people in our area.

The majority of our recent projects have been working with rough sleepers, the homeless and those that have been excluded from society. The issues they face include: unsupported/ mental health illness, sexual violence and prostitution, childhood trauma and abuse...domestic violence, poverty, ex care system issues, addiction, prison,rehab,homelessness and austerity.

The people in our community that we represent are the most likely to access/ be placed in sex segregated services.Some have and will access all of these services.

Our local political and community organisations have been infiltrated by a group of well meaning white middle class goldsmith (uni) students. These people although well intentioned have rail roaded many vital projects by introducing identity policies and intersectional thinking. They do this without truly understanding or experiencing working class issues.

Meetings we have attended for the purpose of discussing community housing projects and women’s wellness etc have been used as a platform to re educate working class people on the new academic language expected within our organisations.

As anyone from a working class back ground will tell you, these theories and ideologies rarely translate into working class communities.

The extremely small number of transsexual (I use the old term as this has a very different meaning to the university umbrella term currently thrown about) members of the community are and have always been excepted and protected by community organisations.

We are now informed that transgender people are being routinely abused (mis gendered) and should be protected above all other marginalised groups. All that has changed is privileged students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised.

The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

This new politics doesn’t equate in our community or for the people we support. We are dealing with working class issues with severely marginalised people and the trans lobby is a gentrification of working class social and political movements. Note the difference between trans lobby and trans people who we support.

No one will discuss our concerns regarding self id. Our local Labour Party has refused to comment or debate with the working class people.

We are attending the meeting this evening as this is only place that is willing to discuss theses issues.

When we are being verbally abused and called fascists because we are concerned about the effects of policy change on marginalised people it is a direct attack on working class women and grass roots organisations.

when sharing information about this event and attempt to shut it down be aware that you are complicit in the silencing of not only women but working class people who have not afforded the privileged of a safe space or university education. Thank you x"

The bit I don't get about the Poland comments is that it sounds like a gotcha. If we don't stop whinging about what a woman is we'll see our abortion rights taken. Ha, women, that'll show you!

That's not the tone women use when warning women about dangerous situations in other countries. When people started saying "look what's happening in Canada" it had a feel of solidarity. "That could happen here if we don't wake up and fight."

One of the many reasons to listen to Datun, Eresh and all the other fabulous women on here.

It's a Tory council. I spent about ten minutes on the local pages the other day, and there's shed loads of community focused and supporting stuff. A new community space is starting up, and hoping to open a payf cafe. Loads of independent local businesses are offering free meals to kids and families that need them. I'd got a bit anxious because of my lazy assumption that a majority Tory voting town would be full of selfish bastards. If I manage to move there I'd still not be able to vote tory in any good conscience though (and never have).

I find it interesting that there is such an accepted characterisation of 'tories' as being selfish and cruel and focussed on lining their pockets. My husband and I actually vote against our own personal financial interests because we believe that the small c conservative approach works for most people (nothing is ever going to work for everyone). A family member's partner was a tory minister and is such an amazing dedicated, kind person who does not accept the pay rises (that ministers have no say over) and works unbelievably hard. The dehumanising (and subsequent abuse) of whole groups of people is not ok. The only people that have called me unspeakable names on social media and shouted at me in my own home etc were not tories - they were the supposedly 'kind' people.

Empowering and supporting people to move forward in their lives, imo is a good thing. Big nanny state, controlling people's speech and thought and being too quick to legislate for things imo is not a good thing.

Anyway, apologies for the derail but I do find it disheartening when people label and dehumanise groups (any groups). I guess women, bosses and tories are not the favourite of an energetic poster on this thread.

that wasn't aimed at you btw Butterer - good luck with your move - I hope it goes really well.

And yet JJ is squarely on wealthy Tory MP Maria Miller's side in believing us to all be "purported feminists"

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2019/01/maria-miller-called-me-fake-feminist-over-gender-self-id-now-she-says-i

The bit I don't get about the Poland comments is that it sounds like a gotcha. If we don't stop whinging about what a woman is we'll see our abortion rights taken. Ha, women, that'll show you!

Yes, exactly. Not the first time I've heard this logic. I've been told that I shouldn't expect to be able to vote if I don't support "trans rights".