Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

[bunters]

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

If you are worried about your DD...
Most kids that are sexually abused are abused by someone they know. Which do you think comes first, the sexual interest in children or the vocational desire to be a priest / or football or gymnastics coach etc? Or is it a coincidence that the peodophile chose a job as a gymnastics coach?
Predatory men will use whatever means are available to them and this is why we have safeguards.

There was research that said of those criminal offenders who have a fetish, aspects of dressing as a woman is the most common, and of the prisoners who ID as female a disproportionate amount are in for sexual offences. Is that all coincidental too?

Why is it ok to call me a cis woman when I don't want to be called that but I have to respect other people's pronouns? Why is it ok to refer to cervix havers in a cervical cancer campaign but prostate cancer campaign get the words men and man and even little bloody men shaped badges that people like football pundicts wear.

Do we ban gay women?

No, because gay women are are women.

Men attack women. Transwomen are biologically men. The vast majority of them are still genitally-intact men. If you look at the language used by some TRA transwomen online, you will see that they are still very much attached to their male genitalia and like to talk about how they will use it against actual women, especially lesbians who have the temerity to say they wouldn't have sex with a male-bodied person.

Toilets are divided by sex, not sexuality. Being gay has nothing to do with it.

What is the evidence for many trans women trying to take over women's spaces? I read about boys supposedly pretending to be trans to gain access to girls bathrooms and I have to say it sounds a little far fetched, and even if it's true, it's surely rare? And even if not, what do they do once they're in there? Look at them?

How long have you got?

This twitter thread might answer some of your questions OP.
mobile.twitter.com/historywoman/status/1191453438825181186

If you have a bit more time, you might like to watch this. (It's long because - guess what? Men accessing women's spaces to do them harm isn't rare.)

The definition of women doesn’t include men however they identify

Ask yourself why women have become cervix havers, menstruators & birthing ppl and men have stayed as men

Not that I think you have any intention of engaging with the arguments

I think OP could do with doing a bit of work on her internalised misogyny and class privilege

Bunters, if I may give my inexperienced two-cents worth.

I used to be full-on TWAW with a few niggles (eg. sports and rape refuges). I started reading FWR in earnest at the start of lockdown and it’s taken 7 months of reading every thread, every link provided - articles, news items, twitter threads, etc for me to realise what women are truly up against. I’ve done plenty of my own research, watched videos on both sides of the ‘argument’ and discussed issues with friends and family to get their viewpoints.

I suggest you do the same as this one, single thread is not going to show you what women are fighting for. I’m not trying to brush you off with a ‘go educate yourself ‘ and I hope you stick around!

@CaraDuneRedux

I think OP could do with doing a bit of work on her internalised misogyny and class privilege

I think she believes she's balanced that out by jumping on a trendy bandwagon to a appear progressive.

i like the bit where she goes- about men gaining access to womens spaces 'even if its true, its surely rare'

i bet the op thinks shes a feminist too, even if she doesnt give a shit about women.

i like the 'should be able to be discussed in a rational way' bit too. op looked at the violence, the threats of violence, the cancellations, the 'no debate' and she has decided its women who arent being rational.

So the OPs arguments are that because a majority of the U.K. people voted Tory in the last election, everyone should stop caring about the weakest in society (women in prisons)? And we shouldn’t care about women’s sports? Because as long as we are not athletes (or have daughter athletes) we don’t mind to watch a team of trans women play sports in the World Cup football?

Did I get that right?

We don't use 'cis' here, OP. Because it's nonsense.

You know that expression, "men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them".
There is no comparing the hurt feelings of men to the risk to safety of women and children, they just do not equate.

And that's before getting onto physically healthy children being medicalised for ideological and emotional issues.

Most of us aren’t women in prison so why are we bothering to try to protect them from being housed physically male bodied individuals who have been convicted of serious sexual crimes?

My gast is flabbered. WTAF? This has to be a joke.

OP, you say "JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights."

JKR put out a tweet. She didn't start a war...

If they actually attack someone then that's a crime and it's dealt with accordingly.

I hear this argument a lot. Let it happen, guys, then deal with it.

And even if not, what do they do once they're in there? Look at them?
Clearly women and girls do not deserve respect, or the expectation of NOT being observed by males whilst in a state of undress.

There is just so much utter dismissal of women and girls here that frankly I am gobsmacked. Can't even critique it properly, sorry.

And please, OP, do not use cis on this board.

Don't call me 'cis'.

My phone is so fed up with threads like this that it is covering content with a picture of a sea lion

Can't say I blame it!

Bit of attention seeking here

You are always commenting and are being frankly patronising or seeking attention, see below from August

"I'm straight, white, slim, educated, and able bodied. I've never been sexually abused, or exploited, or experienced overt sexism at work. I've never been a teenage mum. I've never been a refugee. I've I have no idea what it's like to be a woman who is not me, as much as I try to read and educate myself. But nobody tries to tell me I'm less of a woman because I haven't experienced a wide range of diversity 🤷🏻‍♀️

Tbh I've never even met a trans person (that I know of). It seems a bit bonkers to me that everyone has their knickers in a twist over a tiny portion of society that, imo, need love and protection. I have heard of some trans women fetishising aspects of living as a woman. Perhaps there could be a conversation about how that's offensive without complexly demonising them, same way white people are pulled up for appropriating other cultures?"

Oh the bloody period thing!

For those at the back and the OP: Not all women menstruate but all those who menstruate are women!!!!!

Sigh. The whole damn point is that men won't have to wear dresses. They can simply walk in to women's refuges, rape crisis centres, hospital rooms and changing rooms where women and young girls are vulnerable and naked. And there wouldn't be a damn thing you could do about it.

Women NEED our sex based rights to single spaces. For millennia, men have exploited and abused us on the basis of BIOLOGY. Biology that no man can ever share, so therefore they have no need of our spaces. So ask yourself, why do they want them? It is so that every abusive man can have access to you and your daughter.

Once you say that men can become women, women as a sex class with very specific needs, ceases to exist. And as you cannot defend what you cannot define, the tentacles of transgenderism will slither out across every woman and girl's life, affecting our employment status, sporting opportunities, financial affairs, relationship status, reproductive rights...you name it.

but nows she's known for trans exclusionary language

On Twitter. No one else cares.

@littlebillie

Bit of attention seeking here

You are always commenting and are being frankly patronising or seeking attention, see below from August

"I'm straight, white, slim, educated, and able bodied. I've never been sexually abused, or exploited, or experienced overt sexism at work. I've never been a teenage mum. I've never been a refugee. I've I have no idea what it's like to be a woman who is not me, as much as I try to read and educate myself. But nobody tries to tell me I'm less of a woman because I haven't experienced a wide range of diversity 🤷🏻‍♀️

Tbh I've never even met a trans person (that I know of). It seems a bit bonkers to me that everyone has their knickers in a twist over a tiny portion of society that, imo, need love and protection. I have heard of some trans women fetishising aspects of living as a woman. Perhaps there could be a conversation about how that's offensive without complexly demonising them, same way white people are pulled up for appropriating other cultures?"

Well, this explains the total ignorance, privilege and lack of awareness in the OP.

OP - I stopped reading at "JK Rowling has started a bizarre war", you really need to approach this subject in a different way.
I may open the popcorn and read some of the replies to you.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.