Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

[bunters]

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

This why you are aggressively posting because somewhere you can see the conflict.

Yes. Don't blame the messenger, OP.

[IToldYouIWasFreaky]

@MiddlesexGirl

Most of us aren't profession sportspeople

It affects sportswomen at all levels.
It affects women's representation in all spheres at all levels.

I was just about to say this. I'm a rugby fan and am extremely concerned about England Rugby's decision to disregard World Rugby's findings on transwomen playing women's rugby. Although I am concerned for the pros, with regards to physical safety, it's the amateurs that I'm most worried about. Professionals have the skills and the training to better be able to avoid injuring themselves and others. A badly executed tackle on by a male amateur on a female could have devastating consequences.
I'm really NOT saying that injuries don't happen at a professional level, just pointing out that the issue of including transwomen in the women's game has an impact on women's safety, participation and progression in the amateur game too.

[InflamatoryWrit]

If you've met trans people, you know they pose zero risk to anyone else. And those that do are a minority, just like there are Catholics who rape children, or Muslims who commit crimes, etc. You know the story. Marginalised groups get painted in the same light by those who dislike 'different'.

Another scolder who says "if only you knew any trans people..." Many many posters here do know trans people, as friends and as family and as co-workers. And we do not dislike them, any more than we dislike any other individual. We dislike the movement that says we are c*s now, not women, and tries to wipe out our sex based rights.

"Marginalised group" too funny

[Cailleach1]

Thank you op for pointing out how we can find out if a man is a danger to us or not. You imply that males who have a 'gender' identity other than 'manly' are not any danger. Oh and if they have suicidal tendencies their danger to others is also reduced. You therefore don't have to be in doubt when you talk about doorways at night or anywhere else.

If you fell vulnerable in any given situation, ask any man approaching you if they 'identify' as a man. If not, by your argument, you are fine and you won't need to worry for you or your family. To be doubly safe, ask if they have suicidal tendencies. If they say yes, again by your argument you are fine. I personally won't be adopting that approach, but you believe those things reduce or eliminate any danger. Are these the 'spidey senses' that what you will teaching the daughter you are using as an example of who you worry about?

[Helmetbymidnight]

The thing is OP. You say that you cannot see it, yet you give 2 examples of where you do see it (refuges and sport). You have been taught from a young age that you should be kind, that women should be compliant and should believe the narrative. This why you are aggressively posting because somewhere you can see the conflict. And once you acknowledge it, you can never unsee the truth.

yes, absolutely.

[BovaryX]

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women

That is a blatant inversion of external reality. The bizarre war on language is being waged by those who want to permanently sever words from their meaning. And their tactic is to demonize anyone who objects, denounce them as a 'bigot' and demand they are cancelled. Why should zealots be allowed to impose a Newspeak dictionary with zero public consent?

[Greencoatblue]

It infuriates me when people conflate homophobia with concerns about access to women's' spaces by transwomen and call it transphobia. The prejudice and injustice shown to homosexual people was disgusting. All they ever wanted was the same rights as heterosexual people. Being treated as equals, with equal rights did not impinge on the rights, comfort or safety of anybody else. Self ID transwomen with fully intact male bodies being able to access any space where women are in a state of undress or vulnerability does impinge on women's' rights comfort and safety.

[Coyoacan]

So sad that you read JK Rowling and still don't understand the point she is making.

So sad that you don't care about women in prison or young girls who aspire to become athletes.

op doesnt know what a woman is and doesnt care. she thinks removing our way of talking about ourselves as a sex class is a good thing. she thinks people can change sex. she thinks if someone threatens suicide they must be 'right' and you must do whatever they want. she thinks jkr 'started' this. she doesnt want her daughter to have single sex spaces. she doesnt want her daughter to win even in womens sports. she understands male violence but thinks that evaporates the moment a man says 'oh im not male'. she doesnt believe in safe-guarding at all. she doesnt believe vulnerable women should be free - not just from violence- but intimidation and voyeurism. she thinks women just need to be nicer to men

[RuffleCrow]

Your OP doesn't make any sense.

You make many false assumptions.

You assume there's a distinction between the risks posed by men and the risks posed by males who identify as women. Where's the evidence for this?! Have you ever googled #ThisNeverHappens for starters?!

You accuse the lovely JKR of starting a "bizarr (sic) campaign" t against trans pèople but again where's the evidence that she did this?

It feels like you have only a very superficial grasp of the concepts and the debate. I guess you'll either remain that way or you'll get to grips with the realities behind all the testeria, misogyny and Orwellian mangling of language to the truth.

[MangoSplit]

Most of us aren't profession sportspeople - true. But many many girls play sport at a non-professional level, representing their school / club / county. The same lack of fairness applies at these levels.

[Greencoatblue]

And I haven't even begun to address the sporting issue, crimes recorded as by women even though it was a man, etc etc There was one party official ( not sure which though and can't check now) who declared they'd be satisfied with a board that consisted of 50% men and 50% transwomen as a balanced one.

[InflamatoryWrit]

It doesn't sound like many of the current TRA's want mixed sex facilities though. They seem to believe that mens changing rooms and toilets are dangerous environments for transwomen and that men are a threat. But, as you say, what are the men going to do anyway, look at them? And if they attack a transwoman then that's a crime and should be dealt with accordingly! So we can agree should be no issue for transwomen to use the mens facilities whilst we do the studies about moving from single sex to mixed sex facilities.

There, sorted.

Spot on.

[Winesalot]

For instance trans people in sports. I'm no expert on that but I can see why it might concern people. Trans people in prisons. I can see why someone would be motivated to pretend to be trans to avoid men's prison, and how such an individual would be a danger to women in prisons. But I don't find these examples to be in alignment with most people's interests. Most of us aren't profession sportspeople or in prison, and while I appreciate you can show concern for things that don't concern you, it's not my experience of the great British public.

Do you really believe that women on this board have nothing to offer in these areas and in all the areas that is effected by the conflicts of rights?

Do you really believe that women should stick to whatever narrow experience you have attributed to us?

How about you now tell us what you have done to progress women's rights?

[Kaiserin]

Did anyone actually found anything in OP's posts that was NOT strawmen arguments?

[yourhairiswinterfire]

I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

We talk about it a lot because the ideology movement is full of hate filled misogynists taking great pleasure in threatening to rape and murder women (who we recognise don't represent the majority of trans people at all, but are the types that feel entitled into our spaces).
Stonewall are actively trying to remove our protections in law.
Homophobia, particularly against lesbians, is on the rise thanks to transactivists.

So what do you expect? You want us to sit nicely and smile whilst men steamroll over us? Not going to happen.

And why does it matter to you that we're not sportswomen or in prison? So what? We're allowed to worry about those who are. Some of us worry about and donate to causes that help women and girls that aren't even in this country, that don't even speak the same language as us 😱 Fancy that.

[HecatesCats]

I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

This has come up before - FWR posters aren't good feminists because they are not campaigning for better protections for women in India, or women in detention centres in the US. What is happening to those women is appalling, but I happen to think women in prison in the UK matter, I think sportswomen and girls in the UK matter, I think victims of abuse in women's refuges in the UK matter, I think girls like my daughters attending UK schools matter, so I'll focus on protecting the rights of women & girls where I live to access single sex facilities and sports and to have their sex based oppression acknowledged by our institutions, while those rights are under threat.

[TheQuietWoman]

@HecatesCats

I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

This has come up before - FWR posters aren't good feminists because they are not campaigning for better protections for women in India, or women in detention centres in the US. What is happening to those women is appalling, but I happen to think women in prison in the UK matter, I think sportswomen and girls in the UK matter, I think victims of abuse in women's refuges in the UK matter, I think girls like my daughters attending UK schools matter, so I'll focus on protecting the rights of women & girls where I live to access single sex facilities and sports and to have their sex based oppression acknowledged by our institutions, while those rights are under threat.

And funny how these same people who think feminist women aren't doing enough to stop men from killing and abusing us, have absolutely nothing to say to men to challenge them about the abusive members of their sex.

[Quaagars]

I completely agree with you, OP
And I have read many of the threads on here. Half of the comments get deleted because of blatant transphobia
Look back through history and you'll see a group of people making very similar arguments with a similar level of obsession, whilst simultaneously ignoring or talking way less about more pressing issues: the homophobes.
Sadly people don't like change, don't like to accept those with a completely different outlook on life. Just like there were people who refused to accept others could be gay, there are those who refuse to accept people can be trans. They cannot imagine it as it so beyond their own experience that they will go to any length to deny their very valid but different life experience

Completely agree, and same.
I mean, I get the self ID concerns, but it's when it tips beyond that I just can't align myself with "GC" views.

[PotholeParadies]

Although I am concerned for the pros, with regards to physical safety, it's the amateurs that I'm most worried about. Professionals have the skills and the training to better be able to avoid injuring themselves and others. A badly executed tackle on by a male amateur on a female could have devastating consequences.
I'm really NOT saying that injuries don't happen at a professional level, just pointing out that the issue of including transwomen in the women's game has an impact on women's safety, participation and progression in the amateur game too.

Excellent point. We've had someone post that her friend gave up roller derby because of transwomen on opposing teams.

In my own sport, this isn't just going to mean me losing out on a bronze medal somewhere. It is going to mean that I don't risk entering, because after the weekend event, I still need to be able to go to work, and take part in family life!

Homophobia, particularly against lesbians, is on the rise thanks to transactivists.

OP perpetuated it herself in this very thread!

[OverTheRainbow88]

@Twocustardtarts

Thank you. Your analogy was enlightening for me.

[Quaagars]

No empathy for the more vulnerable members of her own sex, but falling over herself to please the men who despise her.

See, this.
This is just one example of the type of scare mongering crap people just go at.
Who are you talking about?
What men?
Are you insinuating trans people? Or biological men?
Or just all men, that they just despise women full stop?
Now going to get accused of NAMALT, but it's exactly what it is - plays on insecurity and fears and gets people terrified, that everyone hates you as a woman (no they don't)
so by default trans people are people to be wary of, 'because men and they hate you. (or to use pp's words, despise you)
That's where the hate and fear on here seeps in.