Woman's Hour 20 October: Has Mumnset become too politicised?

[nauticant]

I assume this is about the the audacity to criticise the gender identity ideology. I wonder if they'll have a proper discussion. Remember that Jenni Murray only felt free to talk only as she was walking out of the door.

Just wanted to point out, out of respect for Sarah, that her surname is spelt Pedersen with an e. (Hope this doesn't sound nitpicky and critical, but I have a second name that is often misspelled and it jars every time - I didn't Sarah's moment to be spoiled!)

I've just read the downloaded first part of the book. She sounds fantastic.

A real mumsnet connoisseur.

(didn't want - daft me.)

I've just emailed Woman's Hour asking them, in the interests of fairness and impartiality, to qualify any positive mentions of Stonewall with a 'some people, of course, mainly lesbians, regard Stonewall as a deeply homophobic and misofgynistic organisation'. Perhaps others might like to suggest the same.

I really think this needs tackling in an organised fashion. Only yesterday BBC News had an article about endometriosis that failed to mention the word 'woman' or 'women'. I wonder if Sara Pederson would care to develop this as her next project? She's an academic in the field.

Thanks for that Absinthe.
Not nit picky at all - it's important to get names right.
Apologies to Sarah Pedersen!

So we shouldn't talk about how maternity is a second class service?
We shouldn't talk about how covid is hitting women hardest economically?
We shouldnt talk about how childcare limits women's life choices?
We absolutely shouldn't talk about the removal of womens rights?

Cos talking about our life experience is political.

Seriously, wtf.

Yes shedbuilder. That

From nic below

Why? @janegarvey1 @BBCWomansHour. Why was it necessary to interject to “make it clear that 'some people' describe women's groups such as @WomansPlaceUK and @FiLiA_charity and @fairplaywomen as transphobic'. Why promote the vilification and defamation of us?

talking about our life experience is political.

Have to say Red, Jane did say just that at the beginning of the piece.

I listened to the program and wanted to give Mumsnet a vote of support. I normally just read here because as a male single parent I feel like an intruder posting here.
However that doesnt stop me from fully supporting a place where people can speak freely, even if it can be hostile to my gender as a whole.
On the subject of the gender recognition act, there is an assertion running through this thread that the suppression and censorship is being driven by men. Obviously I cant speak for all men but I think this is way off the mark. On this particular issue I think that you will find that the majority of people (including that gender which many of you see as the enemy) agree with you and especially support your right to free expression even when we dont agree.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000nl76

for other people who struggle as much as I do to find the link. it's not showing yet though.

This is largely how today's programme went down on twitter:

twitter.com/72FFR/status/1318500640058974208

Yep nautical to

Nauticant

Sorry my auto 🤦‍♀️

I haven't particularly seen that here Meic, mn are fully aware of the number of women who deny the debate or the need for the debate. Often younger and childless.

Posters are reacting to general patriarchal accusations along the lines of "mumsnetters should only talk about nappies" and "is mn too politicised?"

Those are scripts under patriarchy generally uttered by men. A particular group of men we frequently feel forced to discuss here are good at saying that too.

Meic
Sure. Not all women have the same opinion either and it's good to know that there are many men who are aware of this debate and support women's rights.
Our common 'enemy' if you will is not men generally, it's patriarchal structures. Which are mostly upheld, however unconsciously, by men, but equally there are many women (for a variety of reasons) who are also complicit.
The problems are structural not personal. But impacts are on the person and at the individual level.

The "women on mumsnet FWR like research and evidence" line was a wonderful answer.

Yes, we do. We don't like to be told "that's transphobic so you can't talk about that entire topic, okay?"

In fact, if there is one thing that's going to pique the collective interest of Mumsnet Feminists, it's being instructed to NOT talk about something to do with women and girls.

But as Neurotrashwarrior says, it's not all unconscious. The power structures that exist can be neatly exploited too.

From filia

@Meic

I listened to the program and wanted to give Mumsnet a vote of support. I normally just read here because as a male single parent I feel like an intruder posting here. However that doesnt stop me from fully supporting a place where people can speak freely, even if it can be hostile to my gender as a whole. On the subject of the gender recognition act, there is an assertion running through this thread that the suppression and censorship is being driven by men. Obviously I cant speak for all men but I think this is way off the mark. On this particular issue I think that you will find that the majority of people (including that gender which many of you see as the enemy) agree with you and especially support your right to free expression even when we dont agree.

You should keep reading, you might then realise that it's not Men, nor you specifically, it's patriarchal structures.

Oh, and it's sex, not gender.

Even the nuns now! Did you hear it? When they were talking about being aware of all that's been going on in the world, caused by the virus, the nun said that yes they were very well aware of all the suffering and knew all about what's going on from The Guardian and the BBC. Well informed, eh! They should try Mumsnet.

That was a very good account of Mumsnet from the author and a huge boost for the owners - Congrats to them - but the Woman's Hour questioning of mumsnetters' interests and the cringing 'some say' apologia for misogyny of some unnamed 'some', left a bad taste.

It's a bit late in the day for Woman's Hour and Jane Garvey to start sniping at a woman's / parents' site about politicisation after spending years on a programme badged as being from women's perspective and Jane Garvey unashamedly proclaiming her feminist stance on women's rights and interests. That is until recently when she has uncharacteristically and strangely held her tongue on certain occasions. She was previously outspoken on many things, including equal pay at the BBC and she's never been neutral on say, abortion or maternity rights.

The BBC's claim to be doing this for impartiality is bogus considering it has appointed designated staff and embraced and promoted an ideology even to the point of putting out stuff about a notional hundred genders as if it was real and factual and pointing people, including youngsters, towards unqualified and questionable people / organisations for 'advice' and 'information'. They don't have a Feminist or Women's Rights Editor or Correspondent, do they?

there is an assertion running through this thread that the suppression and censorship is being driven by men. Obviously I cant speak for all men but I think this is way off the mark.

No, it's dead on the mark. Because the suppression and censorship of females from political lobbies re the GRA is solely about removing sex based rights from female people for the benefit and freedom of preference of male people who wish to identify as women. That's it. That's what it's about.

It gets really tiring being constantly gently ticked off by male people who have hurt feelings that women here are apparently upset with men because it isn't their fault and it's not fair - yes, it is fair. Yes, this is a movement by men that will remove in law protections and sex based rights and even the words from women. If you'd listen to what women have to say about this without taking it personally and do something to help, as a man, against the male led movement doing this, that would be lovely, thank you. But the expecting female people to fight for their rapidly vanishing equality and rights more nicely while being gentler on the feelings of men as a class? Spot the misogyny there really.

Decided to listen to this on BBC Sounds during my lunch. Strangely it’s not available.

Yahoo! Someone put the question to them! (not on twitter, just snoop)

Yesterday's programme took hours to be put up.

Are you a Joe Abercrombie fan by any chance Dogman?