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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Joe Biden issues new statement on the transgender debate

460 replies

ripx4nutmeg · 16/10/2020 07:36

In a Q&A he said he'll reverse all 'anti trans' executive orders if he becomes president. He revealed again that he doesn't really know anything about the trans debate but implied he will still give campaigners everything they want twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1316913590620852224?s=20

OP posts:
DidoLamenting · 17/10/2020 18:02

@Aesopfable

Would you consider Biden to the left or right of our current UK government? From what I can see he seems to be to the right. Which just shows how much Americans misunderstand the UK political landscape when they talk about right-wingers here.
I think the only president who came close to what the UK would think of as of the left was Jimmy Carter.
DidoLamenting · 17/10/2020 18:04

So far as Trump wasn't the US economy and employment rates doing quite well under him? Even if that had nothing to do with him.

xxyzz · 17/10/2020 18:13

Anyone who supports Trump is insane or deeply racist.

I assume this thread has been started and/or encouraged so it can be used as Twitter fodder to prove that all GC feminists are far right.

Trump is a danger to everyone, male or female. In the US and beyond He's a threat to democracy which affects all Americans and would clearly have an impact on global politics. His mismanagement of the pandemic has killed over 200,000 Americans with many more sadly likely to come. His refusal to take action on climate change will impact the whole world including future generations. His encouragement of racism and attacks on the rule of law put millions at risk. His desire to remove healthcare from millions of Americans again threatens their lives.

I cannot believe there are people looking at this and going: well, Biden might threaten women's rights. And that's worse than Trump's attack on women's rights through attacks on abortion rights. AND HIS ATTACKS ON WOMEN AS PART OF THE EVERYONE HE IS ATTACKING IN THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE.

Seriously, Biden and the Dems can learn about women's rights issues. Apart from anything else, the US is a hugely litigious country, and the vast wave of lawsuits over damage caused through transition, particularly of children, will have a big impact on rolling that back, just as they are starting to do in the UK.

But there is no way to undo thousands or millions of coronavirus deaths, or fix the climate once it's fucked and turning dictatorships back into democracies often takes decades and/or require civil wars.

Seriously, anyone with a brain who supports Trump needs to get their priorities straight!!!

Aesopfable · 17/10/2020 18:43

His mismanagement of the pandemic has killed over 200,000 Americans

There have currently been nearly 224,000 Coronavirus deaths in America, they sit a tenth in the world behind Belgium, Spain and South America. What policies do you think Trump could have put in place to reduce that figure by over 90% and drop USA to 88th in the world (with most below that either island states or countries unable to record Covid deaths adequately)? Close all borders and have every American sign up to a tracking App? I absolutely think his management of Covid has been dire and resulted in more deaths but we should stick to facts or at least realistic estimates.

HelloToMyKitty · 17/10/2020 18:49

Anyone who supports Trump is insane or deeply racist

I can assure you my family back home is neither. They have good reasons for voting the way they do.

His mismanagement of the pandemic has killed over 200,000 Americans with many more sadly likely to come

You do know that the US is a federal system and State governors are responsible for leading the response? Some did very well, others not so much.

His refusal to take action on climate change will impact the whole world including future generations

Putting in a bunch of fucking windmills is not going to do shit. Sorry. Fracking and natural gas has allowed the US to wean off coal, which is far more damaging.

Frankly the anti-nuclear stance of the Green movement is going to do far more damage, they’ve shut perfectly viable plants in NY and CA. The Greens only make things worse imho.

His encouragement of racism and attacks on the rule of law put millions at risk

Nonsense. He has not encouraged racism, or do you believe the ‘very fine people’ lie? Please read that in context, it means the opposite of what you probably think.

His desire to remove healthcare from millions of Americans again threatens their lives

The ACA needs reformed as costs have gone out of control for the middle class (in the American sense). Not sure Trump is the one to do it though, he doesn’t have any attractive ideas on this issue.

Roe v Wade could be struck down, but not everyone is a single-issue voter. Of course, if it does get struck down, States can make their own laws, so you can expect that many ‘red states’ would start to limit it while ‘blue states’ might expand it.

Ideally Congress would actually legislate on abortion rights instead of relying on a decades-old judicial overreach.

CaraDuneRedux · 17/10/2020 18:59

Re. Trump and covid and federal governors, this page (from CDC data, updated daily) is very useful.

91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?fbclid=IwAR30qEvzq11I78qY5WyPOXUOtjUmZdzQL3d-k9gtDLrG6SMyl5EwD0lWmmU

Especially graphs 3 and 4 (cases per million). Graph 3 is the whole world split by country, graph 4 is the USA split by state.

Which state is doing worst varies with time. In the first wave it was NY and NJ, followed by various other states along the eastern seaboard. Then Florida, Virginia and the Carolinas seemed to be bad. At the moment it looks like it's the states along the Canadian border doing worse.

But the interesting thing, from a global perspective, is that at any given time, there will always be 4 or 5 US states doing worse than any European country. Variety of demographics, some with large urban centres, some more sparsely populated, some with Republican Governors, some with Democrat governors.

Delphinium20 · 17/10/2020 19:06

@Aesopfable. I appreciate clarifying facts and yes, @xxyzz wrote that incorrectly because some US COVID deaths were going to be inevitable. But quibbling over precisely how many would be dead under democratic leadership is missing the big picture.

This point, He's a threat to democracy which affects all Americans and would clearly have an impact on global politics. while a sweeping brush, is the sum of all the rotten parts that Trump has built over his time in office.

For many US GC feminists, we don't want GC to be associated with Trump, because that association taints real life efforts to be seen as a legitimate part of women's and girls' rights discussions in the US. US women don't currently have the luxury to debate line-item policy differences between the 2 candidates. We have a binary choice in 18 days and if we seem panicked or uncivil, it's because we're fucking scared shitless.

FireUnderTheHand · 17/10/2020 19:18

@ListeningQuietly

Its fascinating that a couple of pro trump trolls who are not linked to any state try to anti Biden all the threads with cauldrons of word soup
Your rhetoric is so fucking tired, broken record personified.

Quiet listener my ass, you are a loud and proud propagandist/apologist.

Remind me again of how wonderful Biden was to Anita Hill? Also how wonderful have Biden and Harris been in regards to the industrial prison complex? And Tara Reade?

The willful cognitive dissonance is staggering.

Iminthewrongstory · 17/10/2020 19:50

Ignoring the tone of the above post.
But worth noting that Anita Hill, cited above is voting for Joe Biden:
edition.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/anita-hill-joe-biden-voting/index.html

Goosefoot · 17/10/2020 20:29

@Aesopfable

Would you consider Biden to the left or right of our current UK government? From what I can see he seems to be to the right. Which just shows how much Americans misunderstand the UK political landscape when they talk about right-wingers here.
The Democrats, in general, are right of the Labour Party and also right of the Conservative Party. The US hasn't historically had a really strong mainstream labour movement, and also not much of a conservative tradition in the sense we'd understand it - for them "conservatism" is more like classical liberalism and latterly neoliberalism. The Democrats these days have no real labour sympathies at all, they are also globalists and neoliberals.
Goosefoot · 17/10/2020 20:42

[quote Delphinium20]**@Aesopfable. I appreciate clarifying facts and yes, @xxyzz wrote that incorrectly because some US COVID deaths were going to be inevitable. But quibbling over precisely how many would be dead under democratic leadership is missing the big picture.

This point, He's a threat to democracy which affects all Americans and would clearly have an impact on global politics. while a sweeping brush, is the sum of all the rotten parts that Trump has built over his time in office.

For many US GC feminists, we don't want GC to be associated with Trump, because that association taints real life efforts to be seen as a legitimate part of women's and girls' rights discussions in the US. US women don't currently have the luxury to debate line-item policy differences between the 2 candidates. We have a binary choice in 18 days and if we seem panicked or uncivil, it's because we're fucking scared shitless.[/quote]
This democracy thing for me is the issue though. Maybe he's a threat to democracy, but on balance I don't think he's organised or competent enough to create that situation, and I don't think he even really wants that.

Biden, however, I think is a threat to democracy. Not because he'd do anything wild, or refuse to leave. But because he would do exactly what Obama did, what Clinton did, and for that matter what the Bushes and Reagan did. The Democrats have not learned from the past five years or so what they have been doing wrong. If Biden wins, they will tell themselves that Trump was just some aberration and they can carry on with their neoliberal globalist agenda that ignores the needs of the citizens and pretty much despises a good number of them as well. They will keep offering new Bidens.

So what's the effect of that going to be? It sure won't be that Americans will suddenly become docile and accept it.

It's not a matter of being short termist or single issue, quite the opposite. I thought it was interesting that a poster a while back said her GC friends and relatives were mostly divided on the vote by age, none being happy but with younger ones going with Biden and older for Trump. I don't think the older ones are being myopic, quite the opposite, I think they have a longer lens with regard to how a political arc can play out over the long term.

Delphinium20 · 17/10/2020 20:55

Ideologically, may voters who are choosing Biden better align with Bernie Sanders. They prefer the neoliberalism of Biden because they don't see him as the whole of the party, rather, they see him as less a danger than Trump. They are the ones playing the long game because they see that within the Democrat party, there is a lot of disagreement which they hope will be worked out in the future. But within the Republican party there is adherence to party only, and the labor interests of Bernie know they have no voice in Republicanism, but a possible voice in the Democrat party. Now, not all Bernie supporters will go for Biden...but Bernie himself has allied w/ Biden.

Delphinium20 · 17/10/2020 20:59

*many voters

Wildswim · 17/10/2020 21:17

In the last presidential election, out of the 20 poorest states, 18 of them voter for Trump. Out of the 10 richest states, 9 of them voted for Clinton.

The Democrats are the party of and for the rich.

The Trump vote was a protest vote, a vote for change, and in many cases probably a vote out of despair.

The Democrats need to learn lessons and they need to change and actually start listening to and caring for the poor, disadvantaged, and marginalized.

If they continue on the woke trajectory they seem to be on they will end up nowhere.

Delphinium20 · 17/10/2020 22:04

Also, 88% of all Black voters voted for Clinton, 65% of all Asian voters voted for Clinton, 65% of all Hispanic voters voted for Clinton.

94% of Black women voters voted for Clinton.

While it's true that the percentage of white women who voted for Trump was actually 47%, compared to 45% for Clinton, Overall, 54% of women voted for Clinton. In 2012, more white women voted for Mitt Romney than they did for Trump in 2016.

It's just as easy to say that the Republicans are the party of and for the white men. Not the group I care to cater to.

Quaagars · 17/10/2020 22:09

@DameFanny

And yes, people can have differing political views, but when those views include seeing certain people born a certain way as less than, there's a name for those views and damn right we should be polarised against them
@damefanny

Hear, hear
I'm with you (not read all the thread yet, on about page 7) but I find it pretty fucking terrifying that people seem to think that Trump is the more for women choice, (I mean, what the ACTUAL fuck?!) just because Biden will support trans people as well.
We're going more and more far right, creeping in and people seem to be welcoming that!
Women would be screwed as well, you realise that?! (Biological women before anyone starts)
It's not all about trans issues but you'd think it was on this board.
Dame Fanny has made some decent points but they've just been glossed over and deflected.
It's scary

FireUnderTheHand · 17/10/2020 22:09

[quote Delphinium20]@DidoLamenting yeah, I came across as a snob. You're right about that. That's why apologized.

there's a bit of truth in the MAGA folks and education...Trump does have a higher percentage of white supporters without a college degree. [/quote]
All the 'educated' people I personally know voted for Trump (white and POC). Professors, military officers, entrepreneurs, I mean Elon Musk is toying with voting for Trump (a/o Sept 2020) and he is arguably the most visible individual visionary with impact in regards to space travel and vehicle engineering in the US.

Biden/Harris has a higher percentage of POC supporters without an education than Trump - why does either demographic slant even matter? It doesn't, it is just further polarizing disconnecting the socio-economically depressed from the comfortable - if you are without opportunity or basic necessities or other things most Americans take for granted who cares what color your skin is? If you look at it through that lens you are valuing certain humans over other humans based on their skin color. Just like how men are valued over women, they are both nasty and truly bigoted perspectives. No one chooses their skin color or sex - we are what we are. The people without the basics or living below acceptable standards don't give a fuck about the 'lords and ladies' (read: 1% and politicians) they care about food, housing, medical care, and opportunity and they vote according to what they believe will serve them and their interests best. They have a right to exercise their perspectives and vote based on their beliefs regardless of how PC or un-PC they appear to elites.

You appear to be a classist at heart and willing to denigrate groups of people based on assumptions about an 'accent' that is inextricably tied to a dialect carrying heavy derogatory stereotypes which couldn't be further from the truth in many cases. You seek to paint the 'southern accents' as only tied to 'uneducated whites' with a hot tarred brush watching those you find beneath you melt under your superior existence while experiencing euphoria at the thought of throwing feathers upon their melted visage.

I'm educated, didn't vote for Trump, won't vote for Trump this time and cannot in good conscience vote for Biden. I am logical and refuse to engage in the cognitive dissonance required to vote for Trump or Biden. My family is of the south (spread from southern California to Oklahoma to Kentucky and further eastern south), mostly white, and are divided almost in half by political perspectives. Funny enough those (in my family) with the heaviest of accents and least education are deeply entrenched in being progressive, hating on the other half that supports Trump without any understanding of the issues. The Trump supporters actually read and watch Congressional hearings etc. and can tell you the actual history of our country - the good and bad from policy to social conventions. I am in the extreme minority (in terms of family) as I see both parties and both choices for what they actually are and refuse to submit to the dogma of either and am an active student of our nation's history.

There is a reason so many of the 'educated' move to my state - as per recent findings, "an average of 950 people move to Florida every day and a majority come from high-taxed areas like New York, Boston, California and Chicago"; why do you think that is? "The Elliman report found that new contracts for single-family homes and condos continued to surge in five Florida counties after doubling in July. Palm Beach County saw a 268-percent increase in single-family home contracts worth more than $1 million in July." Florida registered voters are Dems at 37%, Reps at 35% and other at 28%. 28% OTHER, think on that a moment. Now tell me again how uneducated and red southerners are... I mean we are as south as you can get on this coast. A great deal of us educated Floridians are the 'other'. Elite people are moving here and pushing our socio-economically depressed population out of their cities and homes - pushing them to move to areas with high crime due to decreased opportunity that in many cases they recently escaped as little as ten years ago. My neighborhood used to be super affordable - fortunately still pretty diverse but much less so now than 20yrs ago. We bought our house for $80k in 2001 (a bike ride is just under 10 minutes to the beach) but now because of the elites crowding out the normal people you can't get a house in my neighborhood for under $450k - pushing the average income families to derelict communities unsafe for criminals let alone women and children. The elites are moving here due to taxes, they have jacked up the taxes in their cities and states so much that they come here, call it home, and are now putting their money behind making our state as fucked as NYC gentrifying and crashing our middle class housing as middle class income is quickly converting to just above poverty level when collating with housing. I'm sick of seeing normal diverse neighborhoods turned into white washed 'intellectual havens' of homogeny.

The southern accents you refer to are not really accents btw but a by-product of dialects of Southern American English and NEWSFLASH not all people with a southern accent are white. And while the 'accent' may give away domicile, it does not reflect a homologous ideology or perspective - that's like saying all NYers are 'progressive' which simply is untrue. Furthermore, progressivism doesn't mean what it used to mean - it now is interchangeable with authoritarianism. I mean I am told all the time by 'progressives' (mostly white of course) how my sex is a concept and I am a bigoted piece of shit 'Karen' Trump supporter merely for asserting that women's rights should be at the forefront instead of men's feelings/desires/opinions and should be safeguarded from all men regardless of identity or color or social status or wealth. Asserting such nonsense about someone like me isn't progressive - it is fascist, dogmatic, misogynist, short-sighted, and just plain wrong.

I know I came off strong and while I am responding to you this post is mostly a general response to anyone espousing your views. I don't mean to offend, but if I did perhaps you should have a think on it?

FireUnderTheHand · 17/10/2020 22:11

@Aesopfable

His mismanagement of the pandemic has killed over 200,000 Americans

There have currently been nearly 224,000 Coronavirus deaths in America, they sit a tenth in the world behind Belgium, Spain and South America. What policies do you think Trump could have put in place to reduce that figure by over 90% and drop USA to 88th in the world (with most below that either island states or countries unable to record Covid deaths adequately)? Close all borders and have every American sign up to a tracking App? I absolutely think his management of Covid has been dire and resulted in more deaths but we should stick to facts or at least realistic estimates.

^This 100%
FireUnderTheHand · 17/10/2020 22:21

@Wildswim

In the last presidential election, out of the 20 poorest states, 18 of them voter for Trump. Out of the 10 richest states, 9 of them voted for Clinton.

The Democrats are the party of and for the rich.

The Trump vote was a protest vote, a vote for change, and in many cases probably a vote out of despair.

The Democrats need to learn lessons and they need to change and actually start listening to and caring for the poor, disadvantaged, and marginalized.

If they continue on the woke trajectory they seem to be on they will end up nowhere.

^This also 100%
usr798342 · 17/10/2020 22:29

"I can assure you my family back home is neither. They have good reasons for voting the way they do."

I seriously fucking doubt that. MN really is in bed with the far-right.

Wildswim · 17/10/2020 22:29

if you are without opportunity or basic necessities or other things most Americans take for granted who cares what color your skin is

Exactly.

TheQuietWoman · 17/10/2020 22:31

@usr798342

"I can assure you my family back home is neither. They have good reasons for voting the way they do."

I seriously fucking doubt that. MN really is in bed with the far-right.

What makes you say that? Receipts, or it ain't happening.

FireUnderTheHand · 17/10/2020 22:32

This democracy thing for me is the issue though. Maybe he's a threat to democracy, but on balance I don't think he's organised or competent enough to create that situation, and I don't think he even really wants that.

Biden, however, I think is a threat to democracy. Not because he'd do anything wild, or refuse to leave. But because he would do exactly what Obama did, what Clinton did, and for that matter what the Bushes and Reagan did. The Democrats have not learned from the past five years or so what they have been doing wrong. If Biden wins, they will tell themselves that Trump was just some aberration and they can carry on with their neoliberal globalist agenda that ignores the needs of the citizens and pretty much despises a good number of them as well. They will keep offering new Bidens.

So what's the effect of that going to be? It sure won't be that Americans will suddenly become docile and accept it.

It's not a matter of being short termist or single issue, quite the opposite. I thought it was interesting that a poster a while back said her GC friends and relatives were mostly divided on the vote by age, none being happy but with younger ones going with Biden and older for Trump. I don't think the older ones are being myopic, quite the opposite, I think they have a longer lens with regard to how a political arc can play out over the long term.

As I often do, I completely agree with you Goose. You are able to get things I am passionate about communicated in a clear light. My anger crowds my vision and my communication at this point, every day I move closer to abject complacency.

My once youthful perspective of anarchist delusions of peace are creeping back as I consider just watching the country burn down and being noted as a fall of a once promising empire. Maybe once it falls people will pull their heads out of their asses (Republicans and Democrats).

Wildswim · 17/10/2020 22:34

progressivism doesn't mean what it used to mean - it now is interchangeable with authoritarianism

Yes, increasingly this is the case.

Quaagars · 17/10/2020 22:38

MN really is in bed with the far-right

I hate to agree, but It's becoming more and more obvious, there's been a definite shift the past couple of years.
This time last year there was a huge thread running on PP and appearing on a far right YouTube channel, it was OK with most of the board, especially the "big" names, save a few lone voices going "hang on a minute...."
got explained away as "don't have to agree with everything this guy is on about" even though raging far right mysogonist, as long as PP getting message out!
Now we've got people on here thinking Trump is the more pro women choice.... just what?!
It doesn't even attempt to hide on here anymore, it's not so much the undercurrent anymore, it's pervaded the entire board.