Joe Biden issues new statement on the transgender debate

[ripx4nutmeg]

In a Q&A he said he'll reverse all 'anti trans' executive orders if he becomes president. He revealed again that he doesn't really know anything about the trans debate but implied he will still give campaigners everything they want twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1316913590620852224?s=20

against BIDEN
equals
pro TRUMP

because come November3rd all else is beside the point

take your pick
or shut up

take your pick
or shut up

This kind of thing invites those in the middle who lean right to vote Trump. Which is ironic considering how awful it would to see a second term for Trump.

@nauticant

Is their lack of education the thing that gives them their "southern accents"?

Please, feel free to keep digging.

For white people in the US, yes...it sure as hell signals a divide. White people in Northern states can be racists...but because the southern whites who fought for slavery, who were against civil rights and who to this day still vote overwhelmingly for Trump, there is a sense of us vs them.

The majority of white people who live in northern cities vote progressive and see themselves as "not racist." They hear accents from other white people and put them into buckets of "those southern white racists." I'm guilty of those assumptions and I hear you, it's unfair.

As to coming into communities...that's what I'm trying to explain that it WASNT the protesters wreaking havoc. In the middle of nighttime riots and you hear out of town accents on white people...you know they weren't here on vacation....they weren't peacefully protesting during the day like all the white people who DID live here.

And...it feels gross not to mention all the POC who did the majority of the protest work and have been on the forefront of peaceful protest leadership. They deserve respect and acknowledgement above all. Most Black Americans are NOT Trump supporters and I don't give a shit if I sound like a snob to Trumpers if it means I can help them be treated equally in this country. Lack of Tumpers education and their lack of empathy towards black people is what got us into this mess.

@nauticant

take your pick or shut up

This kind of thing invites those in the middle who lean right to vote Trump. Which is ironic considering how awful it would to see a second term for Trump.

If those in the middle are so touchy that an over pushy Democrat will make them vote Trump, then I'm not sure if reasonable arguments would have swayed them anyway.

However awful it would be for Trump to get a second term, this thread is teaching me how it could happen. From a UK perspective, the polarisation is so extreme, that the side more comfortable in being judgemental and being less willing to reach out, is at a disadvantage.

@nauticant

However awful it would be for Trump to get a second term, this thread is teaching me how it could happen. From a UK perspective, the polarisation is so extreme, that the side more comfortable in being judgemental and being less willing to reach out, is at a disadvantage.

@nauticant you are right. I honestly feel bad arguing with women on a feminist site.

It's like poison over here in the states and we Americans are so on edge because we really despise each other now. I don't even realize it until it's pointed out.

I'll stop posting on this topic now. Peace.

I wasn't intending to shut down this particular line of discussion. The one point I was hoping to make is that this thread, in expressing frustration at how hopeless the Democrats have been in responding to Trump, has been mendaciously characterised as being a "rah-rah-rah, go Trump" thread. Anyone is welcome to put that forward, but that approach fails horribly in appealing to the middle.

Nauticant
not in the states I watch

I'm glad that you find that reassuring.

Once more I'm nodding along with nauticant.

Hell we might be in pretty deep shit over here too, but I'm still gobsmacked that the best candidate the democrats could come up with was Joe Biden, and that their manifesto seems to boil down to 'he's not Trump'.

If you think that makes people like me the enemy then seriously, god help you.

they weren't peacefully protesting during the day like all the white people who DID live here

Are these your out of towners ? People not like you?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/08/25/dc-protesters-blm-diner-confrontation/%3foutputType=amp

Another US perspective here for what it's worth. I'm in the southwest. I'm voting Libertarian -- not Biden nor Trump.

No one I know is happy with our choices -- not Trump and not Biden. No one is happy with either the Democrat party nor the Republican party.

Most Biden supporters I know are more anti-Trump than pro-Biden. Trump supporters seem to prefer his policies more than the person.

My gender critical friends and family are mostly divided by age. Young women want to vote Biden to protect reproductive rights... Older women won't vote for the guy that will definitely give up all our sex-based rights because Roe v Wade might be challenged. The talk about Biden packing the Supreme Court and locking in so many "woke" justices is also concerning. So some older women will either vote 3rd party or won't vote for president at all.

In the bigger picture, no one is happy about how Covid has been handled, the promised then stalled second stimulus, or the George Floyd violence/riots, the tech giants influence and censorship, or cancel culture in general as it affects more people on more issues.

I think Trump will win, but more because of Biden losing votes than Trump gaining votes. My best guess is that the Democrats have a better chance of taking the Senate than the White House.

That's what I see and hear if it helps.

@nauticant

50 women a day are murdered in the USA?

As the post by Gurufloof indicates, that's misleading because it would suggest a number of nearly 20,000 women murdered per year. The actual number is much lower than that, maybe several thousand. That's still a tragedy but it's good to have reliable numbers in mind.

50 x 7 = 350 x 52 = 18200 2991 women murdered in 2019, an average of 8 per day. My guess is they meant 50 per week www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

He revealed again that he doesn't really know anything about the trans debate but implied he will still give campaigners everything they want

Thats terrifying really. I wonder how many with power (I know he doesnt as such yet, but he might) think this way. Oh just do what they ask for, they will be happy and who cares really. I have seen women whinging about this, but women always whinge so its obviously about nthing. And if it is something, I still don't care because it won't affect me.

Should surely be necessary to actually understand a topic, before changing laws and such on it! I doubt Trump knows much about it either really. But..he is Trump. The opposition is supposed to be 'better' than a guy who really, to most of the world is a totally reactionary, attention seeking joke of a man, who got lucky because the woman he ran against was not liked much.

Having said that, I do 100% disagree with the 'no trans in the military thing'. I don't see the need. Ofte hormones are brought up to explain that, but..hormones would surely come under usual 'rules' about medication that could affect performace surely? It seems the ban is on anyone who is trans, whether medicated or not. Unless I misunderstood it, not that up to date on American politics as a lot of the time I don't even slightly understand it.

Does the no trans in military also mean that the military don’t have to pick up the medical bills from transitioning? But otherwise is it a good idea to have someone with dysphoria (of any sort) in your fighting unit? Might it be a distraction from their purpose? I don’t know much about where the line is draw for other medical, psychiatric or neurodevelopmental conditions but surely it needs to be considered using the same criteria rather than an ideological yes or no. And transwomen should not be placed in female units or promoted as ‘the first woman to....’ as they are still men. If that is an issue then perhaps they shouldn’t be in the military.

I do 100% disagree with the 'no trans in the military thing'. I don't see the need. Ofte hormones are brought up to explain that, but..hormones would surely come under usual 'rules' about medication that could affect performace surely? It seems the ban is on anyone who is trans, whether medicated or not

There are two issues here. For medication, they do worry about fitness to serve. You won’t be allowed to join if you have diabetes or ADHD, for instance. You can absolutely be medically discharged for developing diabetes while in the military.

The second issue is that, as usual, women will have to step aside to make room for men. Fitness tests and physical tests for special teams — would transwomen only have to pass the female standards? Massive unfair advantage ...

I think no woman has yet passed the Navy Seal test. What if a transwoman made it? Would we have to laud them as the first female Navy Seal?

Horrible

An interesting and scary thread. The polarisation in the US is so, so destructive.

Have any of you read Tara Westover? She was brought up in rural Idaho in a conservative Mormon community and her parents were survivalist weirdos who didn't send her to school. So she homeschooled herself, and through her own efforts and ability got into Brigham Young University and then on to Cambridge for a PhD and Harvard for further study.

She has a lot of interesting things to say about the rural/urban divide and the superior, disdainful attitude of 'educated' Americans living in coastal states to rural Americans. Her memoir is called 'Educated'.

Something she said struck me ; she said she found more open-mindeness in a conservative Mormon university than she did in either Harvard or Cambridge.

This is quite a good interview with her here-
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/tara-westover-trump-rural-america/600916/

take your pick
or shut up

Yeah, this isn't generally proving to be the most successful tactic for persuasion, is it? I mean, either you genuinely hate Trump and are just showing yourself as rude and unpleasant, or you are a secret Trump plant trying to make the Dems look bad.

Politics should be about the issues. We should debate the policies and actions of candidates.

So much opinion, smearing, spin and coercion, not to mention the general shouting. It's depressing. I wonder when we might try to create a more civilised system. I wonder if it's possible.

Thanks Wildswim interesting interview but at the same time not new - clarifying what we know. But also at odds with what people might expect - the ‘left’ (democrats) representing the wealthy and the ‘right’ (republicans) representing the poor. I wonder if this is because the poor see the right as providing a means to climb out of being poor but the left as just making being poor a bit more comfortable?

The threads on U.S. politics on this forum are just wild - and depressing.
I have a lot of American friends desperate for Biden and other Democrats to win. They are writing postcards, voting early, making calls, donating. They aren't just saying suck it up and they aren't uncritical of everything that has gone before.
The issues that concern them (and Biden's positions, they believe, are preferable are);
Healthcare (don't cut the ACA)
Belief in science (handling of the pandemic)
Climate Change
Women's Rights (Roe v. Wade, etc.)
Economic fairness (cut the billionaire tax breaks)
Place on the world stage (don't cosy up to dictators)
Presidential character (is Trump fit to be president)
You may disagree with the stances on these issues but they are out there.

It's good to read a variety of news sources and also double-check your facts. But neither Trump or Biden are unknowns to the American public so if someone is still undecided at this point, I'm not sure they can be convinced, so it's more a matter of getting the vote out.

My friends are terrified of another four years of this and want a unifying figure in the White House. Some are actually feeling some cautious hope because there are some promising signs from the (never to be fully trusted again) polls and some of the senate races are pulling close. It's really easy just to be negative and say isn't everyone crap - when they aren't.

wrongstory I don’t think any of us are expecting to change the vote of any Americans. And the priorities of people outside America are bound to be different to people living there: just as the priorities of Americans living in eg New York will differ from those living in depressed rural idaho. However, we are still allowed to discuss it.

But tell me, if Biden is so keen on science then why is he agreeing to give in to the fake ‘science’ offered by transideology? If he is so keen on women’s rights then why destroy them by defining ‘women’ to mean men too.

Trump is a character who is easy to dislike. His demeanour, tweets, speeches and general behaviour are awful. But we do need to look beyond this at what are the actual political outcomes. What has he achieved through intent or otherwise? What is Biden likely to achieve through intent of otherwise? From speaking to my American (distant) relatives I don’t get the impression many people actually do this - most seem set that their side is good and the other side is bad and that is that.

Something she said struck me ; she said she found more open-mindeness in a conservative Mormon university than she did in either Harvard or Cambridge

Great post. That is a very interesting point and it is discussed in Haidt's book The Coddling of the American Mind in relation to events on campus in 2017. Haidt cites startling statistics about the overwhelming left wing bias which dominates social science and arts departments. This has always existed, but it has become much more pronounced since the 1990s, with ratios of 17 to 1 leaning left. He attributes this to the 'Great Generation' of professors retiring. Many of those had fought in WW2 and entered academia as a result of grants designed to help veterans. They included Republicans and Conservatives thus guaranteeing a bulwark against group think, confirmation bias and political monotheism. That has been obliterated and now US campuses are dominated by an increasingly intolerant, rigid orthodoxy which is antithetical to freedom of speech, freedom of debate, academic rigour.

As Haidt says, this stultifying environment produces witch hunts. Evergreen for example. During the events at Evergreen, only one Professor apart from Brett Weinstein's wife publically supported him. Mike Paros, in Veterinary Science. This is a demonstration of one of Haidt's point about academic witch hunts; people who know the accused is innocent of often fabricated charges remain silent.

Hey cheers @DidoLamenting and @BlackWaveComing! Appreciate it.

Certainly not trying to silence anyone - I posted for a little balance in terms what I think are the important issues for most Americans I know - and I know a lot. I am not aware of any American feminists supporting Trump, but apparently he's a hit here for some reason.

I'm surprised that the US politics discussions on this forum so quickly lurch rightwing/libertarian and convey such a sense of hopelessness.

But if you find it helpful, go for it.