Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Langcleg is vindicated

367 replies

Namechangex5 · 08/10/2020 23:46

Mumsnet thought that Langcleg was wrong to state safeguarding regarding children who thought they were trans. When langcleg argued for our kids Mumsnet didn’t like it. Mumsnet caved to the men. Instead of champion safeguarding, Mumsnet got rid of an expertise on this. Well, Langcleg was right and the Tavistock judicial review shows this.
Langcleg kept me sane in a world where others tried to gaslight me for my refusal to believe that my child was born in the wrong body.
Shame on you Mumsnet for cancelling the very people who help us parents. The voice of sanity. More importantly the voice of support. Do you really think langcleg did this for her own gain? No. She did this to protect us all. Gonna report this post now to bring it to the attention of the monitors.
Langcleg if you are still reading these posts I thank you so much for you help. I wish you were here now to comment on the Tavistock review and feel vindicated.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2020 10:56

I think there are some posters here who won’t be happy until they can openly refer to trans women as ‘men’ and ‘he’

Why is that such a terrible thing? Most people don't like having their speech compelled, especially if it means they are forced to lie.

Quaagars · 10/10/2020 10:56

It’s so rare that you see women expressing themselves so forthrightly

It’s also interesting how quickly that forthrightness gets described as aggressive, hectoring or strident

I genuinely find this comment interesting, how you say that women being forthright on here.
Yes, that's a good thing, of course, to be able to express ourselves, but if you have an opposing view on anything if you are "forthright" it means you must be a man or a TRA.
As someone said upthread, if you have a "male posting style" - (whatever the heck that is)
Or what whoiswrongg said I’m not a TRA grin I’m a woman with an opinion. We’re allowed them you know, even if it doesn’t match with your own
That's what actual women are up against on here if they don't always fall in line.
aS

Quaagars · 10/10/2020 10:57

Don't know what that random as is at the end there!

RedToothBrush · 10/10/2020 10:57

@Moonbasealpha

What exactly is the problem? I haven’t seen trans women posting on this forum now for months, maybe longer. Posters have successfully chased all trans people off here. Self ID is no more. So that’s been successfully shelved.

I think there are some posters here who won’t be happy until they can openly refer to trans women as ‘men’ and ‘he’. That’s what’s going on here.

You are looking at the right threads.

I had a conversation last night with someone on cross sex hormones.

We were talking about studies and evidence of harm for puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. I thought they were saying things that were no accurate so i asked for the source.

I got a couple of links.

Lets just say it didn't reflect was the poster was saying here and it confirmed what we've said about there being a serious lack of evidence for the effects on children and transmen.

Given the context of the thread theme this was quite a problem.

We also know that this kind of opinion is being shared on trans forums with kids. Also a problem.

Its really important we challenge people and misrepresentation of studies if they are saying theres no problem.

I don't give a fig what their gender status is.

If i challenge it, am i going to 'chase someone off' because they dont like being presented with valid evidence based concerns? Im not trying to be difficult about it or nasty in anyway. It was there in black and white from a source that i didn't provide.

The thing is there is more than one interest group involved here. And we are talking about the pushing of long changing drugs - which isnt a factor present when you are gay or lesbian - , and it seems to be male older transitioners pushing for access to experimental drugs on much younger female transitioners who carry completely different risk profiles. Which is a problem.

This is where it is important to be able to point out that transwomen are falling into the male trap of falling to recognise the gap in research for men and women which occurs across all sections of medicine. We need to be able to highlight the fact we can not lump all trans medicine into one group because its not that simple.

But we are caught between this crap of being called transphobic and real world issues which have very serious implications - often for the trans community itself.

The real issue is that one interest group within the trans community want safeguarding removed because that benefits them and they see it as an obstacle, but removal of those safeguards harms others within their own community and others outside it. And theres a sizeable number dont wish to have this pointed out - especially the bit about harm within the trans community itself. Because it does fit their agenda and they dont wish for others to realise it because it harms the chances of them achieving their goal. Any challenge at all is misrepresented as afront and not caring or understanding instead. Its not. Its just people saying 'hang on theres a problem here' that they dont want to have to acknowledge.

This is what frustrates me. I come from a place of understanding this and being concerned about how misrepresentation harmed a family member. I know that theres a sizable number of posters her with daughters who they believe are being told unscientific bullshit, but they cant stop it.

Bottom line i think there is a case to say that people who are spreading what in other contexts would be more clearly identified as 'conspiracy nonsense' are actually leading and influencing policy and yes this needs to be challenged robustly in order to strengthen evidence led practice in this area.

When pointing out the blindly obvious problem which is causing harm to children becomes presented as 'not being nice to other users' as it might chase them off...

... I think it shows up the problem of the 'be nice' mantra of this age which forgets the simple reality that not everyone has your best interests at heart and not everyone is nice.

RedToothBrush · 10/10/2020 10:58

Sorry
You aren't* looking at the right threads.

TinselAngel · 10/10/2020 11:00

Many women here are survivors of coercive control. They're very alert to the dynamics when they play out elsewhere.

Quite. Also like everything it is a matter of degrees. You don't have to be being locked up to be being coercively controlled.

Pelleas · 10/10/2020 11:00

What on earth is a 'male posting style'?

Quaagars · 10/10/2020 11:01

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

I particularly disliked the way she trivialised cohesive control, at a time when woman all over were fighting for it to be taken more seriously as a crime

I don’t believe she did this

At all

Can i have a link pleasse

It was quite trivialising in the way it was just used against people disagreed with - take for example accusing MN of falling for it, wasn't that one of the reasons finally got banned?
Datun · 10/10/2020 11:01

@Moonbasealpha

What exactly is the problem? I haven’t seen trans women posting on this forum now for months, maybe longer. Posters have successfully chased all trans people off here. Self ID is no more. So that’s been successfully shelved.

I think there are some posters here who won’t be happy until they can openly refer to trans women as ‘men’ and ‘he’. That’s what’s going on here.

Any transwoman can post here about feminism. It's a feminist board. It's not a board to centre men, however they identify.

It's really not difficult.

And of course women need to be able to name the two sexes. Otherwise how can they name sexism? It's not much of a gotcha to have identified that.

Quaagars · 10/10/2020 11:02

@Pelleas

What on earth is a 'male posting style'?
Exactly, lol! Has me baffled too
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2020 11:02

... I think it shows up the problem of the 'be nice' mantra of this age which forgets the simple reality that not everyone has your best interests at heart and not everyone is nice.

It really does. "Be nice/kind" is a poor message for girls on a number of levels.

TinselAngel · 10/10/2020 11:05

@Ereshkigalangcleg

... I think it shows up the problem of the 'be nice' mantra of this age which forgets the simple reality that not everyone has your best interests at heart and not everyone is nice.

It really does. "Be nice/kind" is a poor message for girls on a number of levels.

13th rule of misogyny: * Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.*
RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 10/10/2020 11:05

I know she’s worshiped here

Oh for goodness sake...don’t say that on here!

If she is reading she’ll have such a big head 😀

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2020 11:06

She will, Rufus Grin

SophocIestheFox · 10/10/2020 11:07

@Kit19

I’m baffled as to why I’m meant to be upset that male born ppl don’t feel welcome on FWR

This is the feminist board - it centres women

Exactly. And on a thread about Lang and safeguarding children, I’m even more perplexed as to why that should be an issue.

She called a spade a spade. I can imagine she was a thorn in many sides, and bloody good on her, I say. What she was not, was a bully, and I’ve no interest in people who suddenly fall out of the woodwork to say so, when she’s not here to defend herself.

Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate....One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict

TinselAngel · 10/10/2020 11:07

Maybe we should fashion a saggy titted idol?

Datun · 10/10/2020 11:08

The real issue is that one interest group within the trans community want safeguarding removed because that benefits them and they see it as an obstacle, but removal of those safeguards harms others within their own community and others outside it.

This. middle-aged men want hormones for a completely different reason to young women. And it appears to be in their interests to lump the two groups together.

The fact that women have identified this and are challenging it makes them a target. It's not an 'opposing view' that one needs to respect.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/10/2020 11:08

I don't like the 'Male posting style' thing.

Surely it's much more sensible to critique posts based on their content - so, rather than 'style', are they prioritising women or men, for instance?

Having said that, there are certain distinctive combinations of style and content - the man who demands education or 'mansplains' for instance.

Quaagars · 10/10/2020 11:10

It really does. "Be nice/kind" is a poor message for girls on a number of levels

True
On here, though, if you express a different opinion as a female on here that doesn't always work though - if you're "forthright" it's OK if you're GC as women don't have to be nice.
If you're forthright and not GC though you're being an angry man or a TRA.
How does that work, then?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 10/10/2020 11:10

Maybe we should fashion a saggy titted idol

Do not google this 😳

TinselAngel · 10/10/2020 11:11

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Maybe we should fashion a saggy titted idol

Do not google this 😳

Can we just buy one off eBay then?
RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 10/10/2020 11:12

Got one

Langcleg is vindicated
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2020 11:13

We can make a shrine for her out of weetabix boxes.

TinselAngel · 10/10/2020 11:17

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Got one
Is that one wearing a Compo from Last of the Summer Wine, hat?
RedToothBrush · 10/10/2020 11:17

One of the themes of our current age which is true across a number of subject is the destruction of the truth - sometimes unwitting and sometimes deliberate.

This isnt restricted to the politics of trans issues. This could only arise now because of the wider political earthquakes.

Its the rise of ideology and belief against rationality and science.

The problem with suppression of reality is it doesn't stop happening. It just creates scenarios in which reality eventually collides with the ideology and you get a lot of people harmed in the process.

You only minimise this by refinding the public recognition of the truth.

Conspiracy theories tend to arise in times of political instability as people exploit lack of unity to try and gain more power.

Also people buy into conspiracy theories and ideology when they feel vulnerable and at risk. They find comfort in them. Sometimes because reality is harder to face up to.

Someone on a completely different thread just reminded me of the importance of this:

I read an article about conspiracy theorists, it suggests that when an event is just too traumatic for an individual they find extreme comfort in conspiracy theories, which I totally understand, but my god... how dangerous. I wish it wasn’t real!

If you cant define a woman then you aren't grounded in any sort of reality. You are into none defined shapeless clouds of ideology which wont recognise reality. Nor the issues which arise out of reality colliding with ideology.

Thats your basic problem.

Fwr is populated by those who value rationality, science and recognition techniques. There is always going to be a problem for anyone valuing fluffy clouds of feelings over and above that.