Times: Chemist sells hormones for kids online

[Malahaha]

I don't think this is a share token. Still haven't mastered the art.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chemist-sells-hormones-for-trans-children-online-cbgtxlbdr?fbclid=IwAR0ocQdGvaFBfucRwkSlnanlQlhiOi6eH8X3uVprlH7fj8Y-WOSCdoXeOSY

I don't think that last statement is factually correct, Sia, so I'd suggest you get MNHQ to edit the post to take it out, or risk having it taken down.

HW's licence to practice was suspended, but I don't think she's been tecnhically struck off, and I haven't heard anything suggesting a cause like that.

I say that as someone who thinks she has been doing the most awful things, and should quite rightly be held to account for that, and I am totally in favour of blocking off her route to issuing dodgy prescriptions online.

Anger and resentment are appropriate emotions for those trans people directly affected, and I feel sorry for them , but that anger and resentment should be directed at GenderGP whose prescribing business has been built on a house of cards with a poor evidence base, causing irreversible harm to patients, and it was always going to fall apart at some point. It shouldn’t be directed at people who are rightly pleased that this poor quality damaging practice can no longer continue to cause harm, particularly to children.

I'm sorry you are struggling Alex and I hope you find a solution which operates in a more eithical manner. I was wondering, if GGP prescribe from online to you and " hundreds, prob thousands of people " and these hormones have an effect on your physical health, who is doing the physical monitoring of the effects on you physically and making sure you don't encounter other health issues as a result of them? Is there someone performing physical checkups on the children being prescribed hormones or in fact, the adults?

It seems to be prescribing very strong medication with know side effects without maintaining physical checkups is unethical and probably dangerous. I'm concerned you and others aren't being looked after properly and this is a real failing. I understand the urge to use online prescriptions in the face of waiting times but surely this kind of medication requires some monitoring? Do you have someone who does this for you? Do the children using GGP?

I do feel for those caught in some kind of limbo here, it must be scary and frustrating, and perhaps some form of contingency should have been made, however, it strikes me that what GGP is doing is right medically speaking and could lead to people developing other life threatening conditions. That said, I'm no medic but just giving another perspective.

It seems to me and known side effects

fast typing., sore fingers - sorry.

All medical practice (NHS or private) needs to be ethically above board, and if people taking action to investigate concerns in that regard are "targeting" them, then you're arguing for the total deregulation of medicine.

If I recall correctly, that is exactly what Action for Trans health demanded. They were consulted by Maria Miller in the transgender equality report. They wanted all hormones and medication to be available over the counter.

(The fact that they also wanted to be able to operate on one another, didn't appear to effect their credibility when being consulted over the government report.)

Late transitioning adults who want hormones need to understand that the regulations are there to protect not just them, but minors as well.

OMG!

*not right medically speaking
I wish you could edit posts

who is doing the physical monitoring of the effects on you physically and making sure you don't encounter other health issues as a result of them? Is there someone performing physical checkups on the children being prescribed hormones or in fact, the adults?

Indeed. I would like to see an answer to that.

Sia, this shows that they were already suspended before the tragic death of this teen that you may have been thinking about.

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/transgender-treatment-nhs-webberley-jayden-16504026

The Webberleys - a GP and a gastroenterologist - have their licence to practise in the UK currently suspended by the GMC though they are not technically "struck off". Hence the move to Spain. They have been reported multiple times by concerned doctors among others, so the GMC investigations are ongoing.

Due to GenderGP being registered in Hong Kong, my understanding is that the CQC are unable to inspect.

These are loopholes in UK law which GenderGP are exploiting.

Three teens that I know have accessed Cross sex hormone medication after a single Skype call lasting less than an hour to GenderGP.

They received no counselling or challenge to their self diagnosis despite them having complex histories including eating disorders, ASD, school refusal, suicide attempts, CSA, trauma etc.

This is not 'crowing', this is relief.

Gender GP is not the answer. As well as problems with gender gp itself, there have been problems at other prescribing outlets where prescribing decisions were not always appropriate, based on thorough medical history and in line with evidence based; risk assessed national guidance and best practice.

These do not always seem important if you feel you are getting what you want, but when things go wrong, you realise that they were.

I have seen women with menopause issues driven to using this sort of service, but when they have paid out for proper consultations, they have appreciated the quality of service.

If I recall correctly, that is exactly what Action for Trans health demanded. They were consulted by Maria Miller in the transgender equality report. They wanted all hormones and medication to be available over the counter.

Oh yes, in their completely bonkers, self-contradictory manifesto. I'd forgotten about that.

@InspiralCoalescenceRingdown

If I recall correctly, that is exactly what Action for Trans health demanded. They were consulted by Maria Miller in the transgender equality report. They wanted all hormones and medication to be available over the counter.

Oh yes, in their completely bonkers, self-contradictory manifesto. I'd forgotten about that.

Which Maria Miller bizarrely gave greater weight to in her final report than to submissions from the association of prison governors or the professional body for criminal psychologists working in prisons. (In fact, if memory serves me, she didn't even mention their evidence in the final report, though fortunately it's all recorded in Hansard.)

Which Maria Miller bizarrely gave greater weight to in her final report than to submissions from the association of prison governors or the professional body for criminal psychologists working in prisons. (In fact, if memory serves me, she didn't even mention their evidence in the final report, though fortunately it's all recorded in Hansard.)

Indeed. Quite unbelievable.

Contrast that to the public consultation where the government stated they knew it had been gamed by lobby groups.

We've come a long way.

Why on earth are Webberlys precriptions still being actioned. Is there not some way to basically block her from dolling out strong drugs to kids in this country given shes..not licensed now?

Word is that this will adversely affect all those GenderGP patients under 18, regardless of arrangements with local GPs, plus any over 18s whose own GP was unaware that treatment was being prescribed (these patients receive their monitoring through GenderGP, and pay handsomely for it).

Those who are over 18 and have a shared care arrangement with their GP (where the GP covers monitoring and is aware of treatment) will be able to get their prescriptions as usual, once the chemist has confirmed GP involvement and has seen evidence of monitoring.

Rading the reddit thread now

And even if you compare it to other non-physical treatments, it would still be unacceptable to do stuff that increased suicide/self harm risk so much.

It would be unacceptable to stop a doctor giving strong medication willynilly if it was for anything else.

OK. I have had a pain condition for the past 6 years. It took 2 years for the referral to a pain clinic and a further year for a follow up appointment too. I have been waiting almost 2 for an appointment to speak to them about physio.

I understad what the wait for meds that help is like. During the initial 2 year wait for the pain clinic, my GP was unwilling to prescribe anything stronger than codeine. Luckily its better now meds wise (due to pain clinic) but..if we compare my medical situation to the people posting on there about how its horrific to lose their lifeline and such

If during the two year wait I had fund a doctor who was currently suspended but willing to write me a script for oxycodone which would have instantly helped my life to a massive degree..do they really think this is an acceptable situation? Should I moan when the doctor got found out about how horribly unfair it is that I have to wait in line for treatment like others have to? Even taking a dodgy docter out of it, say I was buying oxy from a dealer instead as the doctors wouldn't do it. Dealer gets locked up, my supply is gone. Should I then be able to just get a presciption from my doctor for it because I had managed to get it illegally so long from elsewhere? Should I be prioritised and just given what I ask for because I was sometimes suicidal because of the constant pain, just jump the queue and get what I want, fuck everyone else? As this seems to be the lines of argument I am seeing.

Waiting lists are shit, I know. Its shit when you know what wil help you but medical staff disagree, or you cannot even see the person you need to for ages. Have been in both situations and its awful. But..thats how it is. Waiting lists are massive for everything. If you chose to buy 'off the books' and that supply chain is cut, while yes it will feel like a disaster to you, its just people trying to keep everyone safer and practising evidence based treatments.

Webberly should be arrested IMO. Same as a doctor caught just giving massively strong pain meds after an just an email consultation should be. Even moreso if they had been caught doing this, suspended so they just moved elsewhere and conitnued giving out meds to all and sundry! From her reply on there, shes looking for another loophole to exploit in order to keep givig people drugs when she really should not be able to do that at all given circumstances.

I also do not see asking for an investigation into the Tavi being something so horrible. Its not to shut down trans healthcare, its to get the same standard applied everywhere in medicine. One area cannot be different and not follow the usual rules and procedures, even if the people in that group threaten to kill themselves if they don't get what they want. And honestly?! You would think it would make trans people very happy, that people are waiting everything to be safer and evidece based, rather than quicker. While again, I understand wanting the meds right now, its just not like that anywhere in medicine!

Its not to shut down trans healthcare, its to get the same standard applied everywhere in medicine

I can't see why anyone would object to this if they understood the risks/benefits properly

I don't understand the idea that gender dysphoric or other trans patients don't deserve high-quality, evidence-based treatment the same as everyone else. This needs proper, funded, research and robust randomised, controlled, thoughtfully-designed clinical trials. Not a load of unregulated prescribing by grifters.

As for
Imagine if people with GAD were forced to undergo assessments to prove they weren't lying about their anxiety.

Erm, do they not have to? Many friends have anxiety and some are medicated for it, but it was never a case of just 'I am feeling anxious, give me valium' or whatever. It took a while and in some cases referals which again, were a long waiting list. And counselling seems to be favoured over drugs, in our area anyway. Its not not believing the anxiety is there, but making sure it is ad there are not other underlying problems, and making sure the treatment pathway is the correct one for that person.

It comes across as many on there seem to think for all other conditions, you can just march in, tell the doctor what you want and get it, its only transpeople who are having to wait and be assessed, which is total bollocks. Obviously.

Melroses and Maud exactly. I don't understand the reluctance in making sure its all as well understood as possible, and its the right thing for each person, and evidence based rather than woo and experimentations. I genuinely cannot imagine complaining because there was a inquiry into the pain clinic as they wanted to better understand the treatments and make sure they were the best quality they could be and more likely to actually help.

I'm sure everyone here is overjoyed to learn that 1000s of trans people have just had their medication supply disrupted as of yesterday as Clear Chemist have stopped filling prescriptions.

Neither GenderGP nor the Tavi are perfect, but were you aware that they are entirely optional? "Trans DIY" is a thing, you can get any meds you want on the internet with zero medical oversight whatsoever, and Youtube can tell you all sorts of useful-ish stuff.

This has similarities to birth control and abortion availability in that if you seal off the front doors (by destroying GGP, the Tavi, etc), then the back doors will become the normal route, and heaven help us. x

Oh lord. The government have pledged to open three more gender health clinics.

Campaigners have got what they wanted. More health resources.

Buying hormones from a doctor who is suspended for handing out drugs illegally is bloody dangerous.

The urge to reply sarcastically to the idea of being reassured by a "government pledge" is pretty overwhelming, I don't mind telling you.

Given the state of the country/world right now, I don't see the waiting lists significantly reducing anytime soon. People who are desperate and suffering will go wherever they need to, 'bloody dangerous' or not. I know many people on this site and elsewhere would say '"well, fuck 'em then" but I like to think that others wouldn't be so callous.

BTW, the '3 new clinics' aren't new at all, despite Truss saying so. Also, Webberly doesn't practice anywhere, and GGP don't sell hormones.

if you seal off the front doors (by destroying GGP, the Tavi, etc), then the back doors will become the normal route, and heaven help us. x

GGP is the 'back door'. It's run by a doctor who has been suspended by the GMC and has a criminal record for running an illegal clinic in the UK.

Webberly doesn't practice anywhere, and GGP don't sell hormones.

Webberley is still a part of GGP. They write prescriptions for hormones which were being dispensed by Clear Chemist.

I was a client of GGP, so I know all of that, thanks. Your quibbling doesn't affect my point.

My point being that, like back-street abortions, the demand will be met by a supply. Any teenager with a credit card and an internet connection will do whatever they feel they need to do with no oversight whatsoever. The concerted, well-resourced attacks on all trans healthcare will put people into more risk, not less.