Times: Chemist sells hormones for kids online

[Malahaha]

I don't think this is a share token. Still haven't mastered the art.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chemist-sells-hormones-for-trans-children-online-cbgtxlbdr?fbclid=IwAR0ocQdGvaFBfucRwkSlnanlQlhiOi6eH8X3uVprlH7fj8Y-WOSCdoXeOSY

Webberley is already being investigated by mainstream media. They can sniff out a medial scandal.

If people like mad and JJ want to align themselves with her, I, for one, have no intention of urging caution.

Exposing the reason why people want her to keep prescribing, is a key part of this.

And describing hormones as 'addictive' is ludicrous.

I thought the argument about how awful it was the Webberleys have been shut down again was that all these people who couldn't now get their prescriptions were going to be so desparate to get their next fix prescription they'd start looking for their drugs on the blackmarket.

oh. wait.

the same dose.

Isn’t the dose 4x what a menopausal Women is prescribed (according to D Thomas who was so happy to inform women in their article that they were getting this in a time of HRT shortage where women need it to actually keep working)

@RedToothBrush

And describing hormones as 'addictive' is ludicrous.

I thought the argument about how awful it was the Webberleys have been shut down again was that all these people who couldn't now get their prescriptions were going to be so desparate to get their next fix prescription they'd start looking for their drugs on the blackmarket.

oh. wait.

It is.

Sorry Datun, I was getting confused at all the cognitive dissonance going on about how hormones were simultaneously not addictive but not getting them would led to patients turning to the blackmail because they HAVE to have them.

Silly me.

@RedToothBrush

I love how you bounce around any point i make until you find something almost completely unrelated to get pissy about and then lay it at my door like I'm in charge of the Trans Hive Mind or I have a hotline to Trans HQ or something.

I've never said anything to Her Holiness one way or another. I think she sucks but I keep it mostly to myself. Trans people have more to worry about TBH. Feel free to ignore or misunderstand that point and bounce off somewhere else.

How come the GMC hasn't just struck her off on account of being a danger and acting beyond her scope of practice?

Helen Webberley is currently on an interim suspension and her substantive case has not yet been heard. I believe it was due to be heard this year at some point but what with COVID I imagine there is now a massive backlog of cases waiting. She could well be struck off when her case is finally heard since she is utterly unrepentant, has no insight or recognition that she has done anything wrong.

Help them realise that their bodies will change as they mature and that's fine.

And that, though when they are older they can take hormones and identify as trans, they are not the opposite sex, they never will be, and they need to be supported to come to terms with that.

[quote MadBadDaddy]@RedToothBrush

I love how you bounce around any point i make until you find something almost completely unrelated to get pissy about and then lay it at my door like I'm in charge of the Trans Hive Mind or I have a hotline to Trans HQ or something.

I've never said anything to Her Holiness one way or another. I think she sucks but I keep it mostly to myself. Trans people have more to worry about TBH. Feel free to ignore or misunderstand that point and bounce off somewhere else.[/quote]
I'm sorry, but was it you who posted the following earlier today suggesting that FWR was full of a hivemind who all hate trans people?

MadBadDaddy Thu 08-Oct-20 17:02:57
FWR: "We don't hate trans people"

(1000s of trans people lose access to their meds overnight thanks to concerted, well-resourced campaigningthat won't stop with Clear Chemist. Trans people will now either swamp the already overloaded GICs, or go underground for their meds and use youtube as a doctor)

FWR: victory dance

Sorry, I'm getting confused by the cognitive dissonance and the stench of utter complete hypocrisy.

Its difficult to understand what point you are making when you contradict yourself so bloody much and can't hold a consistent thought for more than about twenty minutes.

[quote MadBadDaddy]@Datun
They'll reduc all right. As soon as schools nationwide start abiding by the government advice to stop teaching gender ideology, stop no platforming people who object to it, and demand an evidence base for all of it, certainly the children queueing up at gender clinics will plummet.

Did you know that the number of left handed people in the world has increased sevenfold in the last 100 years? Why do you think that is?[/quote]
Is it because some quack doctors started chopping off people's right hand?

Still waiting to hear how, why or if left handedness and cross dressing are related?

I’d read it was due to the increase in mothers age in pregnancy. For the increase in left handed people that is.

My point was that there aren't any more or less left-handed people in the world, they just aren't actively supressed any more like they were. It is safe to be an out-n-proud lefty now. It's not so different for trans people, quite possibly gay people also. It counters Datun's assertion that the Evil Trans Agenda is transing children to create a huge Trans Army to take over the world or whatever.
Duh...

Actually, it seems people are saying that there IS more left handed people.... it isn’t that they are allowed to be ‘themselves’.

@MadBadDaddy

My point was that there aren't any more or less left-handed people in the world, they just aren't actively supressed any more like they were. It is safe to be an out-n-proud lefty now. It's not so different for trans people, quite possibly gay people also. It counters Datun's assertion that the Evil Trans Agenda is transing children to create a huge Trans Army to take over the world or whatever. Duh...

Whats that got to do with it being bad thing, that the dodgy Webberleys and their less than ethnical prescription service whilst making a 7 figure amount out of doing so, got closed down?

As I say, the left hand bullshit is a strawman to distract us from the principles and importance of medical ethics and safeguarding. The conversation should ALWAYS focus on this first. Not bollocks about identity.

This subject is about the need for safeguarding and ethical practice in medicine.

Its not about how many left handed people there are nor even how many trans people there are.

Its about how drugs need to be controlled and prescribed in a way that does no harm.

Withholding treatment on the basis of concerns over ethics and safety is upholding the principle of 'first do no harm' so remains the default position for ANY medical condition where concerns arise...

We don't just give out painkillers because people ask for them or however desparate people are for them, for good reason. Cos ethics and safeguarding.

@MadBadDaddy

My point was that there aren't any more or less left-handed people in the world, they just aren't actively supressed any more like they were. It is safe to be an out-n-proud lefty now. It's not so different for trans people, quite possibly gay people also. It counters Datun's assertion that the Evil Trans Agenda is transing children to create a huge Trans Army to take over the world or whatever. Duh...

Oh dear. Even your predictability is getting more predictable.

But yeah, I totes get the connection between left-handed people and suspended doctors prescribing drugs to kids.

Does being able to confidently come out and proud as left handed as a child in the modern age mean they end up infertile with no sexual function? Otherwise I’m struggling to see the comparison.

@NotBadConsidering

Does being able to confidently come out and proud as left handed as a child in the modern age mean they end up infertile with no sexual function? Otherwise I’m struggling to see the comparison.

You forget the bit about life long problems with bone density and vaginal atrophy, pelvic pain from uterus atrophy possibility leading to the need to have a hysteromy. Or heart disease, strokes, cardiovascular damage, and deep vein clots.

Yes I did forget the intensely painful orgasms for females on testosterone, the 46 fold increase risk of breast cancer for males on oestrogen, the impact on cognitive development for those who don’t go through puberty. Also should have mentioned the complications arising from surgery - the creation of an impression of a vagina using bowel tissue and all the lifelong complications from that (infection, need for dilatation, poor wound healing etc etc), ditto an attempt to form an impression of a penis from the muscles of the forearm. Does being out and proud as a left hander result in surgery?

@NotBadConsidering

Yes I did forget the intensely painful orgasms for females on testosterone, the 46 fold increase risk of breast cancer for males on oestrogen, the impact on cognitive development for those who don’t go through puberty. Also should have mentioned the complications arising from surgery - the creation of an impression of a vagina using bowel tissue and all the lifelong complications from that (infection, need for dilatation, poor wound healing etc etc), ditto an attempt to form an impression of a penis from the muscles of the forearm. Does being out and proud as a left hander result in surgery?

All harms that we should just ignore and congratulate the Webberleys on their business model which definitely put the health of trans people first...

...oh. yeah.

Kerrrchiinnng.

Well we need to remember medical treatment has “helped thousands of trans people” even though the evidence is showing that their mental health is no better overall. And we need to remember that puberty blockers “improve the mental health of adult trans people” even though the published study actually showed adult trans people who have been on puberty blockers were much more likely to have been hospitalised for a suicide attempt in the last 12 months compared to those who hadn’t been on puberty blockers. It’s almost as if the actual outcomes don’t matter...

So yeah, good on the Webberleys for putting trans people’s health and welfare first...

I say that as an out and proud left hander whose body is remarkably unchanged as a result of that fact, strangely enough.

Datun made a point about waiting lists that could have been lifted straight out of Section 28, I responded to it with a point about social acceptance, not propaganda, being the cause of increased demand. You tell me what I say doesn't have anything to do with anything b/c it's not about how horrible Dr.Webberley is or whatever. Is this 'civil'?

This is all some perverse sport to you lot I feel. You don't seem to be at all interested in anything except having your own prejudices and fears reinforced and confirmed.

Datun made a point about waiting lists that could have been lifted straight out of Section 28, I responded to it with a point about social acceptance, not propaganda, being the cause of increased demand.

Why do you think so many more children are identifying as transgender then? And what does it mean to be a 'transgender child'?

Do you believe that children are literally 'born in the wrong body'? If so, this is a terrible thing to happen to them, and we should be investigating why it's happening, shouldn't we? Because a lifetime of being a medical patient and having to take medication for life as well as having numerous operations which historically have had a very high failure rate is not a good outcome for any child, is it?

Or is transgenderism something else? Perhaps it's a feeling of disgust and revulsion at one's own sexed body. But if this is happening more and more, surely we should be investigating why, and trying to find ways for the children who suffer in this way to come to terms with the bodies they have.

Or is it something else? If so, what?

This is all some perverse sport to you lot I feel. You don't seem to be at all interested in anything except having your own prejudices and fears reinforced and confirmed.

None of us think this is 'sport'. I am appalled that children are being told that their perfectly healthy bodies are 'wrong' and they need correcting. I want to see those children taught that their bodies are fine the way they are, and that they can accept themselves as who they are, and they don't need to change their bodies to fit in with what some narrow minded people think they should be like.

@MadBadDaddy

Datun made a point about waiting lists that could have been lifted straight out of Section 28, I responded to it with a point about social acceptance, not propaganda, being the cause of increased demand. You tell me what I say doesn't have anything to do with anything b/c it's not about how horrible Dr.Webberley is or whatever. Is this 'civil'?

This is all some perverse sport to you lot I feel. You don't seem to be at all interested in anything except having your own prejudices and fears reinforced and confirmed.

Given that a lot of what has been taught in school is a) inaccurate and misleading b) been massively reverse ferreted on by everyone going including mermaids c) based on homophobic and sexist stereotypes which are rather problematic in their own right

The conversation has finally come around to talking about why there is such a high spike in the number of girls seeking gender reassignment. As it should a long time ago. And how there are certain medical ethics questions about this (see current court case) and why we should probably do some research into whats happening. And why the pattern looks an awful lot like social contagion akin to anorexia in young girls. We need to explore why there is such a sex based difference in the age profile of men and women who come out as trans and whether this means we should not treat the two groups in a similar fashion being mindful that there is concern that the older male group has something of a conflict of interests with the younger female group because what is good for one group isnt necessarily good for the other.

I dont see why we are talking about section 28 here at all anyway. Being gay or lesbian does not require you to take drugs that do life long damage to your body and take away your fertility. Or go and seek out dodgy spanish based clinics.

Please stop using gays and lesbians as a shield and a trojan horse to remove medical safeguarding and ethics when it comes to the health of children.

Not only is that insulting and frankly offensive to the number of gay and lesbians (and indeed straight people) who actively campaigned against section 28 but do think there is an issue over consent and issues being discussed with children who dont yet have the capacity to understand what their sexuality is at such young ages and are being asked to make life changing descions in the absence of evidence that says these drugs will improve the quality of their life in the long term.

You are conflating two different things to try and win an argument. And once again, your argument is a pile of bollocks based on straw man arguments. Being gay or lesbian is not being trans. Each position has its on unique issues and has to be addressed as such. And indeed has to win its own battles on merit rather than cashing in on others hard fought victories (often at their expense).