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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Accessible Toilets

999 replies

WarOnWomen · 03/10/2020 13:28

I've just seen this thread by Fair Play for Women regarding their stance on toilets. Maya F is also on the thread clarifying the issue.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1312062467191734273?s=21

They are saying that everyone should be comfortable choosing the toilets they want to without being forced to share with opposite sex. Yup. Trans people should also not have to share with people designated at birth. Yup, also agree. Have a mix sex category for people who don't mind and trans people. Sure.

They are saying these facilities already exist. Accessible toilets. This is where I feel lost and let down. These toilets are for disabled people. People worked hard to get these accessible toilets. I don't want my mum having to share these toilets with trans women, anymore than I want them in female spaces. It's just wrong. And don't disabled people have a say as part of the EA2010?

Please tell me I have the wrong end of the stick.

Accessible Toilets
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EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 21:12

So if a young woman posts an intimate picture of herself on her social media its just cool for people to spread it round the world and put it on their own websites is it?

You don't seem to understand consent.

I'd say you don't seem to understand the difference between men and women but it seems a bit redundant tbh.

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 21:14

@sointou

So if a young woman posts an intimate picture of herself on her social media its just cool for people to spread it round the world and put it on their own websites is it?

I agree that people shouldn't post other people's pictures on their site without permission, but otherwise, you seem perplexed at how the internet, and social media in particular, works.

And thats why under UK law sharing that picture without consent would very probably be considered a criminal sexual offence by the courts.
Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 21:16

So is exposing yourself to un-consenting parties ..

Datun · 07/10/2020 21:19

🤣🤣🤣

That's on par with the definition of a woman is going around being a woman. And Sky News furiously trawling the internet to delete Posie Parker making mincemeat of Harrop.

Comedy gold.

EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 21:50

Hang on. He is a 'young woman' isn't he?

Are you suggesting he isn't?

You out and out bigot jj! Acceptance without exception remember Wink

karenkanta · 07/10/2020 21:54

So if a young woman posts an intimate picture of herself on her social media its just cool for people to spread it round the world and put it on their own websites is it?

Well once it's out there this is potentially what happens. The problem with social media. Best not to share pictures of yourself that you don't want others to see for that very reason.

EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 22:07

Best not to share photos of you naked with a hard on in a women's refuge for loads of reasons but yes, this is the real 'What's In It For Me' one.

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 22:12

@Whatwouldscullydo

So is exposing yourself to un-consenting parties ..
Which there is no evidence she did. Libel, sharing intimate photos without consent, lies, you wouldn't get away with doing this to someone with money, but a homeless kid, yeah why not.
jj1968 · 07/10/2020 22:14

@Datun

🤣🤣🤣

That's on par with the definition of a woman is going around being a woman. And Sky News furiously trawling the internet to delete Posie Parker making mincemeat of Harrop.

Comedy gold.

Lol sexual abuse. Doesn't count if it's a trans. Go gender critical feminism. I'm not surprised people's kids won't talk to them anymore.
Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 22:16

They certainly implied they did.

I dont understand why their word is good enough when clearly a lie when it comes to saying what they are, but we can't believe anything else they say?

Its a dilemma....

EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 22:16

Doing what? Get away with doing what? Confused

EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 22:17

Who clicks that link and thinks 'That's the real victim. The one with their dick hanging out in the refuge'? Just who?

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 22:22

@EvenSupposing

Who clicks that link and thinks 'That's the real victim. The one with their dick hanging out in the refuge'? Just who?
Anyone who has worked in a refuge or hostel for a start, I guarantee it. The pic was clearly taken in a private space. For all anyone knows it could have been leaked and her facebook could have been set to private when it was posted. She could even be under 18, it's not unheard of in emergency hostels, in any event she looks very young. But who cares eh, she's just a homeless trans.
karenkanta · 07/10/2020 22:22

Which there is no evidence she did. Libel, sharing intimate photos without consent, lies, you wouldn't get away with doing this to someone with money, but a homeless kid, yeah why not

I believe it was a selfie they posted up themselves. So yeah. Awkward.

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 22:24

Oh don't pretend to care . You were only calling them "she" 2 pages ago.

You dont believe it any more than anyone else does

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 22:25

You won't even define what a female gender is so we can see what you see...

CharlieParley · 07/10/2020 22:26

So if a young woman posts an intimate picture of herself on her social media its just cool for people to spread it round the world and put it on their own websites is it?

And thats why under UK law sharing that picture without consent would very probably be considered a criminal sexual offence by the courts.

Oh dear, jj1968 please, you really need to read up on this legal stuff a bit more. For your own sake, if not for the sake of those who might believe your erroneous assertions.

The legal reality is this:

  1. Using, including republishing, another person's published content without permission is a copyright infringement under most but not all circumstances.

However, the legal situation specifically around publishing your content to social media depends on the terms and conditions of the site you're publishing on. A number of social media companies have (or had) Ts&Cs that mean you grant a licence for reuse by the mere process of uploading it to the site. In practice this can mean that others can freely share your content within that site without your consent and without infringing on your copyright.

Copyright infringement, even when the content used without permission are intimate pictures, is not a criminal sexual offence under UK law.

Enforcement is up to the copyright owner, but the subject matter is irrelevant unless

  1. The images depict a minor. Regardless of whether the child took and published the pictures, anyone who downloads, distributes or republishes them is guilty of of a criminal sexual offence under UK law, but this doesn't apply to your scenario as it concerns a young woman, i.e. not a minor.
  1. However, there is a law, Section 33 of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 (aka the Law on Revenge Porn), which specifically prohibits sharing, distributing or publishing private photos of a revealing or intimate nature. In order for this law to apply, the images have to be private. For the purposes of the law this means unpublished.

In your scenario, the young woman has freely published her own intimate pictures on social media. Pictures that are in the public domain with the consent of the person depicted can be shared because this is not a criminal sexual offence under Section 33.

So the only issue with sharing the photos posted by the young woman in your scenario is a possible copyright infringement. Depending on the Ts&Cs of the site she used.

And if you ever advise young women, please do tell them not to publish intimate pictures of themselves to social media sites if they do not wish them to be shared by others without their permission.

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 22:26

@Whatwouldscullydo

They certainly implied they did.

I dont understand why their word is good enough when clearly a lie when it comes to saying what they are, but we can't believe anything else they say?

Its a dilemma....

So an implication is enough for them to be sexually humiliated online is it? And she doesn't imply she exposed herself to anyone.
334bu · 07/10/2020 22:28

Did this person not post on the Internet that they did indeed expose themself to unconsenting women or am I wrong?

EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 22:30

You know that the women you are refusing to think about - the ones this person assaulted - are also in a refuge don't you? But they're not as vulnerable for you. I wonder why? I wonder why you won't see their vulnerability despite all your experience? I wonder why only one person is getting your sympathy?

I'd say empathy rather than sympathy jj - because that is what is required here - but I very much doubt that that is a feeling that troubles you much...

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 22:31

@CharlieParley

In your scenario, the young woman has freely published her own intimate pictures on social media. Pictures that are in the public domain with the consent of the person depicted can be shared because this is not a criminal sexual offence under Section 33.

Are you sure her facebook page was public? Did you check? Did anyone bother to check, or check her age for that matter?

I have seen legal opinion by the way that if someone removed a photo from their social media then unless they have signed a release form it would become private for the purposes of this law. I believe it is as yet untested. So you're right, it's a borderline sexual offence. Maybe it wouldn't be technically illegal maybe it would. So that's okay then.

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 22:31

I'm asking how a lie can he enough for one thing but an admission or strong implication not enough for another

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 22:33

@EvenSupposing

You know that the women you are refusing to think about - the ones this person assaulted - are also in a refuge don't you? But they're not as vulnerable for you. I wonder why? I wonder why you won't see their vulnerability despite all your experience? I wonder why only one person is getting your sympathy?

I'd say empathy rather than sympathy jj - because that is what is required here - but I very much doubt that that is a feeling that troubles you much...

There is no evidence this person assaulted anyone. Have the women complained about the shelter being trans inclusive, or are you just speaking for them?
Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 22:36

If you have experience in a refuge or shelter then you know that the women there do not have the time or the head space to complain. They are ground down exhausted and abused the last thing they want is an argument.

Saying nothing doesn't mean its not hurting them. Or that they consent

CharlieParley · 07/10/2020 22:37

Ha, I just realised who you meant by "young woman". My advice stands regardless of the sex of the person depicted. Tell them not to do it if they don't want others to share their photos.

(Although, given that the person in question clearly manifests evidence of an exhibitionist fetish, I'm not sure your concern and outrage is welcome or warranted. But as we are all concerned sometimes about the wellbeing of people who don't need or want our concern, I do understand.)

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