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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Accessible Toilets

999 replies

WarOnWomen · 03/10/2020 13:28

I've just seen this thread by Fair Play for Women regarding their stance on toilets. Maya F is also on the thread clarifying the issue.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1312062467191734273?s=21

They are saying that everyone should be comfortable choosing the toilets they want to without being forced to share with opposite sex. Yup. Trans people should also not have to share with people designated at birth. Yup, also agree. Have a mix sex category for people who don't mind and trans people. Sure.

They are saying these facilities already exist. Accessible toilets. This is where I feel lost and let down. These toilets are for disabled people. People worked hard to get these accessible toilets. I don't want my mum having to share these toilets with trans women, anymore than I want them in female spaces. It's just wrong. And don't disabled people have a say as part of the EA2010?

Please tell me I have the wrong end of the stick.

Accessible Toilets
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2020 19:39

As for the person with the hard on in the women's shelter - that story need shared because nobody believe that women are at risk. Nobody believes Karen White would happen, or any of then other very many examples that show starkly what gc feminists are warning of. I've seen it play out on social media - TRAs claim women are never at risk from transwomen. Examples are given. Then gc women are attacked for being unkind to Karen White, etc. Because we should just shut up, and not mention the inconvenient reality that self ID will and does put vulnerable.women at risk.

Yes, exactly. This guilt tripping doesn't fly any more.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2020 19:41

I don't see those same people defending you anymore. They can see exacty who you are now. Sunlight at last.

Funny, I see sunlight in the exact opposite direction. Perspective, I guess.

334bu · 07/10/2020 19:41

Women's refuges should not have males as residents and then this particular problem would never have occurred. Women count too !!
Glossary
Women = human beings born without dangly bits

Jux · 07/10/2020 19:42

I really don't understand why they can't just take out the urinals in the men's loos and install more separate cubicles. Wouldn't that be a lot cheaper for all businesses than to make a third space?

Please explain why that can't be done, in small words please!

testing987654321 · 07/10/2020 19:42

Did I understand correctly, the people responsible for the naked male photo weren't the people who housed him in a women's space, or the man himself but the women who didn't think it should have happened in the first place?

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2020 19:45

Frankly, jj, I don't believe you. 'Your pals' no longer having sympathy with gc views - anecdotal. Meaningless.

RedDogsBeg · 07/10/2020 19:46

jj1968 I think it is perfectly possible to make your point without picking on an individual homeless person and shaming them across the internet for a stupid tweet that for all you know isn't even true, chaotic people say all sorts of things. The reasons the women who ran that shelter were so upset is because it can take very little to tip an individual person like that into crisis, and it's the workers who see the results of that and have to pick up the pieces, if there are indeed any pieces left to pick up. Its utterly shameful behaviour in my view and shows you know nothing about the entire sector you are claiming to protect.

The person who made those tweets has never denied making them, nor the veracity of the contents thereof, nor have they retracted them, on what basis do you decree them untrue?

Yet again, you go straight to minimising the behaviour of this person and the impact their behaviour had on the vulnerable, traumatised women who were subject to it. You just cannot feel any sympathy for the vulnerable traumatised women further abused by this aggressive, abusive person, you cannot bring yourself to say this should never have happened, that safeguarding failed and the women in that shelter were the victims of that failing. The only person in this case you care about is the one perpetrating the abuse against already abused, traumatised, vulnerable women. The shameful behaviour was perpetrated by that individual, the Shelter for failing to protect their other residents from it and dismissing criticism of it and you for doing the same. There was no shameful behaviour on the part of those who drew attention to it.

I really think some elements of the GC movement have completely lost their moral compass. Perhaps that is the result of a politics that seems to celebrate not being kind. It makes me think reading some of the desperately sad stories of gender critical people who have lost friends or whose kids won't speak to them anymore that perhaps it's not because they don't understand basic biology, but because you do callous shit like this to a vulnerable homeless person and seem to think it's perfectly okay and normal. It's why people think you're a hate movement.

The callous shit is being done to women, and all you can say is 'be kind'. The hate movement is not the one fighting for the rights of women and girls it's the one that decrees vulnerable, traumatised women and girls should suffer further abuse at the hands of people like the individual in this case.

You keep asking for examples as to how women are adversely and negatively impacted by this ideology, you are given them, you don't like them and immediately DARVO them. I don't believe you've ever had or even know what a moral compass is, you really are a piece of work.

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 19:47

aaah so now with the she...

Thought we wouldn't notice huh...

You are only angry because the lies have been exposed.

There's evidence that they post themselves.

Its out there now.

EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 19:56

Our movement is fucked? Sunlight at last? Are you in 2015 or something?

You're going to be fucking horrified when you emerge from that basement I tell ya Grin

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2020 20:00

Did I understand correctly, the people responsible for the naked male photo weren't the people who housed him in a women's space, or the man himself but the women who didn't think it should have happened in the first place?

That's it.

CaraDuneRedux · 07/10/2020 20:01

Bottom line of jj's argument seems to be:

Human person with dangly bits exposing themselves in women's refuge: that's fine, because probably mentally ill [for the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe this, I think this person is just yet another perve getting off on boundary violation and sexual offending] - women, be kind.

Human person with vulva trying to recover from domestic violence/sexual abuse who is re-traumatised by encounter with human person with dangly bits in what she thought was a safe place - bigot.

Women pointing out that this is entirely arse-about-face as an analysis of the situation: even more bigoted, in fact HAVE LOST THEIR MORAL COMPASS

ShockShockShock

Fuck that for a game of soldiers. I'm not playing this game of DARVO. It's pretty obvious to anyone with half a braincell who's got the moral high ground here, and it sure as hell isn't the person defending a male flasher upsetting vulnerable women.

RedDogsBeg · 07/10/2020 20:11

If 'our' movement is fucked what are you so frightened of jj1968?

I see the exact opposite it is your movement that is fucked the more and more these incidents come to light and the more and more people like you defend the perpetrators the more and more people sit up, take notice and don't like what they see and disagree with you.

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 20:13

Human person with dangly bits exposing themselves in women's refuge: that's fine, because probably mentally ill [for the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe this, I think this person is just yet another perve getting off on boundary violation and sexual offending] - women, be kind.

There is no evidence she exposed herself to other residents, you're just making things up now.

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 20:18

Apart from their own words...

Which apparently is good enough to determine womanhood not when it comes to talk of exposing themself?

karenkanta · 07/10/2020 20:23

You've fucked your movement doing things like this.

You wish we had fucked it. We haven't. We've shone a light on it and the whole world can see you. It ain't pretty. And we're putting a stop to it.

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 20:29

@Whatwouldscullydo

Apart from their own words...

Which apparently is good enough to determine womanhood not when it comes to talk of exposing themself?

They don't talk of exposing themselves unless you mean being topless and even then there is no evidence that happened in front of other residents. But who cares eh, who cares if it's not true, who cares that she didn't give consent for that photo to be shared round the world, who cares that she might have been in the middle of a mental health crisis and hard pressed staff could have been working to manage it as best they can, who cares if this kind of global attention pushes an already vulnerable person over the edge, who gives a shit, she's poor, she won't sue and it got loads of retweets. Shameful.
Datun · 07/10/2020 20:33

JJ, having told everyone that your definition of a woman is 'going around being a woman', I wondered if you could tell me under what circumstances, if any, you think a woman's space should be able to exclude a male born individual?

Are there any?

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 20:37

They put it on twitter themselves.

But of course its every one else's fault. Always is.

The only reason you are angry is because it exposes whats really going on and there's fuck all you can do to.spin it to make them the victim. No matter how hard you seem to try.

You haven't shown one shred if sympathy for the woman who didn't get a spot in the shelter who might be lying in a hospital bed beaten as we speak. And the women who at the hardest time if their lives are being abused by heing exposed to male bodies in a place they should feel safe.

334bu · 07/10/2020 20:39

Sorry I thought that it was this person themself who posted the photo on the world wide web for anybody to see..????

GoingAroundBeingAWoman · 07/10/2020 20:46

going around being a woman is fucking priceless!

EvenSupposing · 07/10/2020 20:46

[quote OldCrone]Imagine being someone evicted from her home and socially cleansed from the city her and her kids live in due to misogynist welfare cuts and hearing middle class feminists say sorry, we'd like to help but nobody knows what a woman is anymore so we can't. We'd like to fight to keep the local VAWG project open, but they don't know what a woman is either so I'm afraid your services will have to go as well.

Do you have any sympathy for women who want a single-sex space and not to have to share a room with someone with a penis?

www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-boasts-of-harassing-women-in-crisis-shelter/[/quote]
If any lurkers were wondering if jj had a point (I know, I know but some people are more vulnerable to this bollocks than others) I would urge you to take a look at the actual link Shock

jj1968 · 07/10/2020 20:59

@334bu

Sorry I thought that it was this person themself who posted the photo on the world wide web for anybody to see..????
So if a young woman posts an intimate picture of herself on her social media its just cool for people to spread it round the world and put it on their own websites is it?

You don't seem to understand consent.

Whatwouldscullydo · 07/10/2020 21:00

Because they are all about consent Hmm

334bu · 07/10/2020 21:08

I bet the women didn't consent to seeing her dangly bits!

sointou · 07/10/2020 21:09

So if a young woman posts an intimate picture of herself on her social media its just cool for people to spread it round the world and put it on their own websites is it?

I agree that people shouldn't post other people's pictures on their site without permission, but otherwise, you seem perplexed at how the internet, and social media in particular, works.

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