Gender Critical = fundamentally right wing (according to Vox)

[TheRealMcKenna]

I know it’s Vox, I know it’s not a ‘reputable’ news source, but this is hilariously bad.

Main points:

• TERFs calling themselves ‘gender critical’ are akin to white supremacists calling themselves ‘race realists’.
• Women are oppressed based on gender identity and not biological sex.
• Most ‘decent’ feminists include trans women in their movement, but a horrid bunch of conservative-allying pro-life supporting homophobic white supremacists don’t.
• GC feminists Who rely on ‘science’ have abandoned the idea that chromosomes determine sex (this is news to me)
• GC feminism is mainly a UK phenomenon and is ‘whipped up’ by the horrid Mumsnet site. Everyone else in the world is lovely (apart from those far right pro-life conservatives).
• GC feminists cite a tiny number of high profile cases to whip up fear and hatred of trans women.
• GC advocates bully people online, especially on Twitter.
• GC academics have a terribly large amount of power and influence.

www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/5/20840101/terfs-radical-feminists-gender-critical

I used to lurk On the red pill and other Extreme MRA forums On Reddit, back when “the redpill” was ascendent And SRS was a thing - these are pre MGTOW days, maybe 10-12 years ago.

Many posters there discussed how the existence Of trans people proved that they had been Right all along about the saliency of gender stereotypes. After all - trans people, just like the MRAs, Know in their hearts that “women are like this, men are like that”. They also thought it was extremely funny and hypocritical that feminists supported trans people given how regressive the whole trans right movement was when it came to gender stereotypes.

When it comes to MRA if A is true is proves them right, if B is true it proves them right. So what I say above proves nothing. If the MRAs on the red pill agreeing that trans people’s identities are “valid” does not make TRAs actually right wing, then neither does your Specific MRA friend “agreeing” With GC feminists that trans women are male make GV feminists right wing.

A simple Google shows me that it absolutely IS the case that trans people can use the toilet of which gender they present. That's on a government guide.

But I'm out.

Peace

@CloudyVanilla

And trust me the vast majority of 10 year olds would understand this issue better than the grown add women on this toxic community. Your obsession with trans women is almost fetish like in nature. All the adversity facing women and all you give a shit about is keeping an already massively persecuted and marginalised group down.

Get over yourself. You think you're the first and only person to justify bigotry with your pretend concerns? You think that people a couple decades ago clutching their pearls at "the gays" and shrieking about how they'd sex up and indoctrinate the kidz weren't spouting the exact same shit you're spouting now? You think you're any fucking different to any community anywhere intent on othering those who they perceive as different to them and wanting the status quo of their subjugation because God forbid YOU with your perfectly heteronormative, conformist ways might have to put up with them being seen as equal to you?

You're nothing new. It's a fucking joke but keep on pretending your'e doing it for all the marginalised women out there.

Makes me sick.

Well that escalated quickly

Right/left are predominantly economic positions. I remain on the left, as I've always been.

Proponents of gender identity seem quite ideologically incoherent to me. They propose conservative ideas around 'natural gender', display authoritarian traits in the prosecution of this idea, and yet rest their rights and choices on concepts of libertarianism.

Peace indeed!

Slipped there big time 😂

Well, that's a first. Never had a post hidden before! Shame, as it had all those links to hard data which the poster was so anxious to see.

Apparently not so anxious, after all.

Services that are single sex are not single gender.

It always goes the same way - they start off fairly reasonably then before you know it they're coming at you like a bag of cocks. Every fucking time.

Love a bit of classic misogynistic gas lighting. I participate in good faith with a community that clearly disagrees with me for pages and pages, and then when I get upset at the absolutely ignorance of a poster just posting solely to make fun of me over an emotive issue without contributing anything to the discussion and I react, suddenly "the mask has slipped".

This mask has not slipped at all. I stand by my views proudly and I will defend myself against sheer horrible ad hominem fuckwittery. These are people lives we are taking about, serious issues of prejudice and discrimination and human rights. I think it should be fucking understandable that some people actually take that seriously.

Don't know where that bloody halo came from in my last post btw

So much for being the voice of reason...

This is the feminism board. Shilling for men's rights is done elsewhere. As is swearing at other posters.

I'm defending women's rights love. Trans women are women.

Could you provide a link, please? I can't find what you say is there. Ann Sinnott's judicial review will hopefully clear up the problems in this area caused by misrepresentation of the Equality Act 2010 by the EHRC among others. Would it be their guidance you're referring to? uncommongroundmedia.com/the-2010-equality-act-is-being-undermined-by-official-guidance/

I can't take the critique that feminism is aligned with conservative positions on gender seriously. The accusation is of essentialism - that feminists believe males naturally perform masculinity and females, femininity, and that these roles must be policed and enforced, especially when male is in danger of performing femininity.

It's a stunningly ignorant claim that betrays a complete lack of understanding of the claims feminism makes.

I know someone is either ignorant, or arguing in bad faith, when they claim feminists are essentialists.

"These are people lives we are taking about, serious issues of prejudice and discrimination and human rights. "

Indeed, and on both sides of the issue. There are also very serious issues concerning the sudden increase in teenage girls wishing to transition when we have no proper diagnostic method for determining when a person is transgender in the sense that transitioning is the best solution to the dysphoria which might drive it, and so are left with not knowing if some children are given the wrong treatment.

@CloudyVanilla

I'm defending women's rights love. Trans women are women.

This isn't the place to shill for males.

Anyhow back on topic...

I've seen on Twitter how gender critical feminist are accused of all sorts of nonsense. I've been called a man, a fascist, a nazi, a racist, hateful, ugly, discriminatory, stupid, sexist - all for not kowtowing to the dogma.

This article made me laugh.

I never said feminism equated to essentialism. I can however see parallels with sex essentialism seen amongst red pill type communities and the lack of tolerance of gender identity when it conflicts with natal sex amongst radical feminists. What I meant by that is when GC feminists say stuff like "slapping on a dress doesn't make you a woman".

@BlackWaveComing

I can't take the critique that feminism is aligned with conservative positions on gender seriously. The accusation is of essentialism - that feminists believe males naturally perform masculinity and females, femininity, and that these roles must be policed and enforced, especially when male is in danger of performing femininity.

It's a stunningly ignorant claim that betrays a complete lack of understanding of the claims feminism makes.

I know someone is either ignorant, or arguing in bad faith, when they claim feminists are essentialists.

I have seen more essentialist thinking from such activist organisations as Mermaids in the past and also from many online trans activists who argue that stereotypes about femininity and masculinity should be used to determine what a woman and a man are.