Dear MNHQ:

[PerfectPretender]

It's become perfectly clear now that pointing out safeguarding failures over recent years has not been unreasonable, or mean-spirited, or unkind, but actually completely reasonable and expected of educational guidelines and safeguarding procedures.

It's time for you to accept that our concerns were, shall we say, valid.

And every single time you deleted one of us for pointing out these blindingly obvious safeguarding failures? Wrong side of history. You.

You owe a lot of women an apology.

On the other hand, MN gave us a space to debate within (and about) that was really important.

Well said PerfectPretender.

Will those women who were banned from MN for raising safeguarding issues in relation to practices supporting gender self ID now be able to re-join?

I think @mnhq were treading a difficult line here, with overwhelming pressure and harrassment from all sorts of aggressive activist groups to remove their advertising, remove them off their platform etc. Despite the theats and unprecedented abuse, despite all of this, they kept the conversation going for women. One of the very few platforms thàt did. And I am grateful to @mnhq for that

Agree. When a well researched and truthful article about safeguarding printed in the Times by Janice Turner cannot be paraphrased on Mumsnet - a site dominated by women with children - we know that MNHQ have a problem. Janice Turner was writing about serious lapses in safeguarding and we have repeatedly tried to raise awareness of these lapses - only to be shut down, deleted or banned.

I was banned for a week for saying - in gentler terms - what Janice said in her article and what people all over the country are beginning to say. This is a parenting site - this stuff is of grave concern to parents.

In another, better world, MNHQ would be campaigning on this issue and congratulating its users for the work they have done to bring these issues to wider attention.

Agreed kaza.

Although if you could reinstate the women you did ban for telling the truth @mnhq, then that would be a very good thing. We want them back.

I don't disagree with the OP, but Mumsnet has been a space where many thousands of us have heard about this issue and the ramifications. And for that, I thank them. They could have been even more censorious to protect their ad revenue and own interests but they haven't.

I probably would be a TWAW believer without Mumsnet.

I want a 'Radicalised by Mumsnet' mug for my desk at work.

They did JamieLee but those who suggested that safeguarding issue were arising from gender self ID were give short thrift, quite unfairly. FWR was disproportionately policed compared to other sections of the boards.

I understand your point PerfectPretender but I agree with others that @MNHQ did something significant, that cost them, by giving us a space to debate these issues.

Many organisations looked at the hassle of resisting groupthink and the related pressures and then caved. @MNHQ didn't do this.

In another, better world, MNHQ would be campaigning on this issue and congratulating its users for the work they have done to bring these issues to wider attention.

Re safeguarding, I would love to see this, and have it link in with previous MN campaigns like Let Toys Be Toys and This Is My Child.

And yes, reinstatements (or invitations to rejoin).

It would be a positive way forward.

Sure @MNHQ got some things wrong, but they got the biggest thing right: they enabled discussion of different viewpoints, including the heretical gender critical one.

I wish we could say more. There are things that we need to understand as parents of young children, as they grow up. More so now we have had this internet and communications revolution. Activities that we did not need to understand before have become commonplace, and can be brought into your own home.

Being open and truthful about the way people live their lives and the implications on others would be far more useful than trying to keep an eye out on your DC's online activities with the latest scares and scams in mind.

A good knowledge of behaviours and safeguarding protocols is invaluable.

@nauticant

Sure *@MNHQ* got some things wrong, but they got the biggest thing right: they enabled discussion of different viewpoints, including the heretical gender critical one.

Yes, I agree with this. The pressure on MNHQ, as a place which has actually allowed discussion of this issue, has been immense and still it continues. Yes, there have been decisions I have not agreed with, but overall I am just so thankful that this space exists.

I’m with @Kazakaren mumsnet have been stuck between a rock and a hard place with this. They must have lost a fortune in advertising and taken a huge dint to their reputation too. But they have still allowed a place for women to debate these issues despite huge backlash. It’s a shame that people have been banned or had posts deleted but it’s pretty much been the only place on the Internet that’s been available so hats off to em as far as I’m concerned. Thanks @MumsnetHQ 😘

I think for every woman who posts on this section, there's countless more quietly reading and getting a handle on the issues.

And think how happy TRAs would be if they could get Mumsnet shut down, that alone should tell us that even though it isn't perfect it is pretty damn amazing.

@WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe

Well said PerfectPretender.

Will those women who were banned from MN for raising safeguarding issues in relation to practices supporting gender self ID now be able to re-join?

I would hope so. Many of those women were very knowledgeable about safeguarding.

Reddit banned Gender Critical Reddit and basically all other female centred Sub reddits including I think one about PMT?

One post complaining about being called a "pregnant person" or "person with a cervix" on NetMums gets you a perma ban.

We live in strange and extreme times for women.
It's fair to say Mumsnet have done their best to rise miles higher than the rest.

@MNHQ

I would also like MNHQ to talk to the Spectator. The way they dealt with the threat of an advertising boycott was exemplary. They won readers as a result. I've always thought MNHQ should woman up, basically. They are not running a little kitchen table business now - it's a massive platform with a huge impact. They really need to own that. I get that it's scary but they are providing a service for millions of women and monetising that - they should be facing down the silly fools who threaten MN. Stop being apologetic and get on the front foot. Tell the advertisers that what they provide is a platform for millions of women to speak and if advertisers don't want to speak to those women - who have many different views - then they should take their margarine adverts elsewhere.

Well said OP.
So many knowledgeable and experienced posters banned for speaking the truth under increasingly draconian rules specific to this board. MN could have safeguarded these women because it was recognised just how vital their input was. That didn't happen. This board would not have arrived at where it is now, without their clear understanding of what safeguarding means.

I'm also very grateful to MNHQ and suspect that we have no idea of the levels of immense pressure that they are under. When you see the levels of abuse aimed at JKR and the complete regulatory capture of political parties, unions, the civil service, the legal system, almost everywhere, the fact that this small corner of the internet remains a woman centred place that allows discussions that are silenced elsewhere is amazing. I will be eternally grateful that Justine didn't capitulate.
Yes, I'm not always happy with the moderation but I accept that it's a challenging task and with wealthy, litigious lobby groups and sour individuals monitoring threads on here, I'm not surprised that at times things went wrong.

I remain thankful for FWR and all the women who post on here - and continually grateful to MNHQ for continuing to facilitate it.

Agree Mollscroll. A mum is a female parent, therefore the title mumsnet suggests it is a platform for mums to speak freely without their concerns, largely as mums, being overly policed.

So we’re thankful to MNHQ for their stance on free speech and we’re asking for a big review on the rules and words permissible around safeguarding?

I am mostly a lurker but I've been reading here since 2016 and truly I wouldn't be where I am in this debate (as rabid a radical feminist as they come, these days) if it wasn't for the existence of this board. I'm grateful for it and I will be first in the queue to collect a 'Radicalised by Mumsnet' mug.

They definitely made mistakes but by and large they have kept the conversation alive here, and let women talk to each other about it in public, which is the one thing the TRAs cannot abide, and which is no small thing. And, because it's Mumsnet, the conversation is generally direct, clear, funny, well-informed, well-written and free of bullshit. Which is very persuasive.

I mean, we're all pretty certain that a certain famous non-flammable witch is a lurker here too, right? I'd be very surprised if Mumsnet lurking hadn't informed JK's thinking along the way.

Ease off OP. Mumsnet may have made decisions we haven't liked and probably hurt some people. But they have enabled the debate to continue despite some serious pressure, and been one of the very few places online where it's even been possible. And that's worth a LOT.

I agree with you OP.
I'm grateful to the posters who carried on regardless