Labour continuing to support self-declaration

[Polynerd]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but the official Labour Twitter account tweeted this earlier today:
It is deeply disappointing that the government has let trans people down and dropped its plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act.
Labour is committed to equality and we continue to support updating the GRA to introduce self-declaration for trans people.

I am normally a LD voter in a safeish LD seat, but voted Labour in the last GE because Labour were sounding slightly less batshit in public on this issue around the time. (GC women not welcome in LDs etc.)

Next time I vote, I will again consider which of the leftish parties are sounding least batshit on this issue and vote for them. This official tweet is exactly the sort of thing which will count against them in my voting intention.

Starmer's a former public prosecutor so I can understand how the strategy of waiting till the moment is right and you're confident of winning must be well ingrained. But I'm assuming this is an official Labour Party tweet? He may not have chosen to make it, indeed I can well believe it was done in an attempt to pull him off the fence. But it's out there now and If he says nothing then I'm going to assume he endorses it. My patience is all out.

that Starmer is taking things slowly and waiting to see what happens before he shows his hand.
Refusing to show his hand in the face of tweets like that make it clear that he's on board with them. If he's not, hiding until the heat is off is equally despicable.

Fuck Labour. The Tories are corrupt incompetent disaster capitalists who are planning to profit off the destruction and poverty they mete out to ordinary people. But if it's a choice between that and allowing homicidal males who want to identify as women so they have better opportunities to kill us to have their way, then I'm going to have to support the disaster capitalists. Even though they're being led around by the nose by someone who is probably working for Putin.

(obligatory footnote: the reference above to homicidal males is not a generalisation about all trans people, I am speaking of the specific case that is currently occurring in Ireland with the homicidal "teenage girl" that the police have issued warnings about. This is what self-ID leads to - acceptance without exception, thanks Stonewall!- and even being indirectly governed by Putin is better than that.)

Seriously. Being a better option than this government is not hard. The bar is ON THE GROUND. But they've fucked it. I'd literally vote for a government that was chosen by random lottery from members of the public before voting for either Labour or the Tories.

i think the tide is turning against gender idiocy and more people are aware and against it. in three years time, with more light shone, all the people barking stupid slogans last year will be pretending they never did and it will disappear in a cloud of embarrassment.

And we will have the screenshots.

Very depressing. Safe labour seat so I doubt they'll care that they've lost my vote.

Very disappointing. This is a deal breaker for me.

Did I see the lib dems are having their conference this weekend? Should be interesting.

Bets are on - tantrums or denials?

Also saw a tweet from Angela Rayner stamping her feet about it all.

They just don’t get it?

its disgusting the way mermaids are backtracking- and pink news...
i cant trust any of those labour mps who've ever said twaw- but i expect they'll wangle out of it: 'we didnt mean this/we always supported women' blah blah liars.

I"ve messaged them too. They have to see how many people they are alienating, surely?

As I said on the Stella Creasy thread they can fuck off into the sunset now. Even if they went full on GC tomorrow I wouldn't trust them not to change tack and betray women after all once they got into power now. Bugger that!

@Helmetbymidnight

its disgusting the way mermaids are backtracking- and pink news... i cant trust any of those labour mps who've ever said twaw- but i expect they'll wangle out of it: 'we didnt mean this/we always supported women' blah blah liars.

Are they backtracking? I'd be happy to see it, tbh.

And now the Labour MP for Sheffield Hallam
has written a piece for p* news

twitter.com/_oliviablake/status/1309167975266648064?s=21

Showing that she doesn’t understand the equality act & that Labour really are going to die on this fucking hill 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/09/24/olivia-blake-labour-mp-gender-recognition-act-reform-trans-non-binary-failure-liz-truss/

Seriously. Being a better option than this government is not hard. The bar is ON THE GROUND. But they've fucked it.
Kantastic nails it.

I've sent my last missive to Ed Davey: if I hear nowt back, then I'm cancelling my sub. I won't be voting LibDem. I can't bring myself to vote Labour for several reasons. I despise Boris.

Spoilt paper for me next time around, since I expect zippo from Mr Davey (he's not answered my previous enquiries). I might write a few stickers out ahead of time to just attach to my ballot, rather than cluttering up the booth trying to articulate my thoughts. Apparently at the counts the spoilt papers can be very interesting. A friend of mine saw one in the past few years that was illustrated with a well-drawn pile of dung complete with buzzing flies.

For the Tories, they are the gift that goes on giving.

I cried when I spoilt my ballot for the first time at the last election. I would love to be able to vote Labour or even LD but self-ID rules them out for me. I’m with Kantastic on this and would consider voting Tory even though I disagree with them on almost everything else as this issue is so important. I cannot in all conscience vote for any party that cares so little for women that they would push for self-ID

Saw William Clouson (SDP leader) speak last year. He was asked, “just yes or no will do, do you believe that a woman can have a penis?”

He immediately replied “no.”

I joined on the spot.

I come from generations of labour voters and I simply do not recognise the policies that demand I believe something so silly at best, downright dangerous at worst.

I think Olivia Blake is making up policy on the spot.

I don't want to click on the PN link but from her tweet she is linking to this page from the CAB

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/what-doesn-t-count-as-unlawful-discrimination-in-goods-and-services/single-sex-and-separate-services-for-men-and-women-when-discrimination-is-allowed/

It says

"Transgender people mustn't be excluded from separate or single sex services provided to people of their acquired gender, unless there's a good enough reason. This can be the case whether or not they have a gender recognition certificate. A gender recognition certificate is a document which allows you to be legally recognised in your acquired gender."

More than anything, I think think this highlights the confusion around the law.

The CAB don't explain what "A good enough reason" is, or refer to the legislation.

However, I don't think linking to an article that basically says "If there is a good enough reason a transgender person without a GRC can be excluded from a single sex space" is the killer argument Olivia Blake thinks.

@Childrenofthestones

For the Tories, they are the gift that goes on giving.

I'm sure the Tories are absolutely delighted at this Labour announcement. Ensuring we continue with no actual credible opposition.

I think they're blinded by their preconceptions, I really do. Unable to get past the 'Tory = bad' thinking that is so fucking simplistic and unhelpful that I think this is possibly the day I truly give up on the left. It's not like they've not had the chance, multiple times, to come up with something sensitive, nuanced and balanced on this subject, if they really are determined to argue the toss. Yet they are utterly determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, so insistent on throwing out their soundbites that are so screamingly obviously unresearched or backed up with evidence. They do not deserve even contempt, they are just rendered utterly irrelevant.

I don't, and never have, agreed with Tory policies or economics, at all, but it seems the only way forward is to abandon Labour entirely and start to work for a centrist Tory govt. Gah.

I don't think linking to an article that basically says "If there is a good enough reason a transgender person without a GRC can be excluded from a single sex space" is the killer argument Olivia Blake thinks.

Indeed.

My son is a millennial ( just) . The other evening he was telling me about a conversation he had had with a friend. They are both interested in politics. They both admitted that as early 20 yr old men they had not realised what the likes of Germaine Greer and many many others had had to go through in earlier waves of feminism. And he talks to me. They are both now huge fans of Germaine Greer by the by and absolutely anti self ID. So , meticulously researched , based on a sample of two - but at least two millennials who do not agree with the wholesale - you are transphobic if you do not agree with Self ID. He also said he had read something from the Tavistock Clinic which he thought sensible - Society is moving faster than the evidence ( sorry if that has been posted before - I am sure it has )

The Tories are going to hit Labour with this at the next GE like a cricket bat to the head. If Keir Starmer thinks he can carry on ignoring this issue then he is massively underestimating the strength of feeling amongst the general public.
I live in the red wall area, no one, absolutely fucking no one thinks TWAW.