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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour continuing to support self-declaration

272 replies

Polynerd · 24/09/2020 17:50

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but the official Labour Twitter account tweeted this earlier today:
It is deeply disappointing that the government has let trans people down and dropped its plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act.
Labour is committed to equality and we continue to support updating the GRA to introduce self-declaration for trans people.

Labour continuing to support self-declaration
OP posts:
CallarMorvern · 25/09/2020 06:42

I think Starmer is of the, "bide your time, and give people enough rope" belief, problem is we might not have enough rope or enough time.

EdgeOfACoin · 25/09/2020 06:45

It’s very obvious that Keir Starmer is trying to avoid culture wars and is very much NOT chasing woke sounding issues.

I think Tony Blair told him not to go near the trans debate. That advice was probably okay 2 or 3 years ago, but Keir is going to have to get off the fence soon. Women aren't going to shut up about this and nor are the TRAs.

Either Keir believes that women are adult human females, deserving of certain rights and protections that do not apply to biological males, or he does not. He cannot have it both ways.

reesewithoutaspoon · 25/09/2020 06:46

Life long Labour voter. spoiled my ballot at the last election because of this issue. DDoes no one in the party do maths. chasing a 1% minority while shitting on the 51% majority is not a good strategy.
They can fuck right off as far as I,m concerned and I,ve already got 5 other members of my family who will no longer vote for them as long as this issue of shitting on women continues

Myfridgeisamess · 25/09/2020 06:50

Another lifelong Labour voter here... Not any more unless they change this bonkers policy. Sad

Goingdooolally · 25/09/2020 06:57

I am in Scotland and have always voted Labour. I will not do so until they drop this stance. It really saddens me as I agree with them on everything else. As a woman this is too important to ignore.

Choccorocco · 25/09/2020 06:59

sigh I voted Liberal Democrat’s until the last election when their stance on this lost them my vote and I went over to Labour. And now this.

Please can someone explain how requiring medical diagnosis is anti-trans? I just don’t get it.

While we’re at it - and apologies if I’m showing my ignorance here - I’m still struggling to understand why we aren’t trying to broaden our understanding of what it is to be male to cover normalisation of a more feminised masculinity and vice versa for women who want to show male attributes? Is there a spectrum of gender dysphoria and how do you know when you’re at the tipping point?

Or is this missing the point? Please enlighten me, I’m keen to understand!

PurpleHoodie · 25/09/2020 07:02

It’s very obvious that Keir Starmer is trying to avoid culture wars and is very much NOT chasing woke sounding issues.

By staying silent on this, he is saying - quite resoundly - to the woman on the street, with a vote (no matter her class) that he doesn't give a toss about her.

He's not an unintelligent man, but he'll prove to be a stupid man if he ignores women.

sashagabadon · 25/09/2020 07:05

Then many women just won't vote labour. I won't.
It'll also dominate their interviews come election time again as the tories will ensure it does.
Bet tories strategists are delighted

sashagabadon · 25/09/2020 07:07

@Choccorocco

sigh I voted Liberal Democrat’s until the last election when their stance on this lost them my vote and I went over to Labour. And now this.

Please can someone explain how requiring medical diagnosis is anti-trans? I just don’t get it.

While we’re at it - and apologies if I’m showing my ignorance here - I’m still struggling to understand why we aren’t trying to broaden our understanding of what it is to be male to cover normalisation of a more feminised masculinity and vice versa for women who want to show male attributes? Is there a spectrum of gender dysphoria and how do you know when you’re at the tipping point?

Or is this missing the point? Please enlighten me, I’m keen to understand!

Some of the many many many contradictions in gender ideology that literally have no answer i can understand either
sashagabadon · 25/09/2020 07:08

@Goingdooolally

I am in Scotland and have always voted Labour. I will not do so until they drop this stance. It really saddens me as I agree with them on everything else. As a woman this is too important to ignore.
I think the snp are going to bring in self id in March 2021?
EdgeOfACoin · 25/09/2020 07:10

Then many women just won't vote labour. I won't. It'll also dominate their interviews come election time again as the tories will ensure it does.

London mayoral elections next year. Sadiq Khan is a fully paid up member of the TWAW club. Presume Lib Dem candidate is as well. Not sure about Shaun Bailey.

SunsetBeetch · 25/09/2020 07:11

@Kit19

It’s been mentioned in a few threads but deserves a thread of its own as I’m sure Labour has ppl watching this board

Labour will not get my vote back until they drop this

Same, same. Fecking idiots.
risefromyourgrave · 25/09/2020 07:16

They’ve just got to change their slogan to ‘For the few not the many.

Packingsoapandwater · 25/09/2020 07:25

"Their eyes are fixed firmly on the Millennials. Many of them who don’t even vote now but will in a few years."

The problem with this tactic is that the older millennials get, the more likely they are to realise the inherent problems with gender ideology.

When you are young and protected in the bubbles of school, college and youth subculture, radical social ideas appear safer because you only assess their impact according to those environments - - after all, it's all you know.

But once you go out into the real world, where you are one adult amongst millions of all ages, cultures, generations and types, the picture changes. It's no longer a question of a fellow student using female facilities, but pretty much anyone.

I've seen the left pursue the youth market for years, thinking it will propel them into the stratosphere. I even thought that myself in my twenties. The problem is that life happens to those young people, and their experiences cause them to move to more conservative (small C) positions.

For any organic social change, you need a supportive majority of adults aged between 30 and 65. That's where the numbers are. But you've got to allow for the life experience factor that starts to change perspectives once people are over 30: people start having families, wanting secure housing etc. Priorities change drastically.

That's why they've pursued closed doors lobbying on this issue. They know it will never receive the support of the public in the way gay rights legislation did.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 25/09/2020 07:36

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Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone · 25/09/2020 07:37

@Polynerd

I want to cry. What are you supposed to do if you are economically on the left but also believe that women need private spaces?
Probably the same thing as if you are left wing but also a brexiteer. The current first past the post system sucks.
PotholeParadise · 25/09/2020 07:49

@EdgeOfACoin

It’s very obvious that Keir Starmer is trying to avoid culture wars and is very much NOT chasing woke sounding issues.

I think Tony Blair told him not to go near the trans debate. That advice was probably okay 2 or 3 years ago, but Keir is going to have to get off the fence soon. Women aren't going to shut up about this and nor are the TRAs.

Either Keir believes that women are adult human females, deserving of certain rights and protections that do not apply to biological males, or he does not. He cannot have it both ways.

The Conservative party won't shut up, eithet. Having realised that there is a strength of feeling out there on this, they'd be fools not to capitalise on the appreciation for Liz Truss's decision and not to shift official policy behind her.

If the print media (esp the high circulation DM) keep running stories of the worst abuses that pseudo-Self ID permitted, declaring that Labour would introduce Self-ID legislation for real, then bye-bye Red Wall. Again.

IHateCoronavirus · 25/09/2020 07:51

I literally feel as if I live in a political no man’s land. I hate what conservatives have done to education and I feel the handling of Covid has been inconsistent and incoherent, yet I can’t get on board with self identification. I will 100% support trans women who go through top and bottom surgery though.

Gurufloof · 25/09/2020 07:52

If KS seriously wants to be PM he has to come out against self ID or he will lose because in neither case is he fit to lead the country

He needs to do this soon, I wont believe him if he comes out with it weeks before an election. And of course sort out the cabinet, get rid of the woke/sjw women haters.
I emailed him before the elections, told him to self id as a woman and see if that upset wrong daily or the other one.

PurpleHoodie · 25/09/2020 07:55

That's why they've pursued closed doors lobbying on this issue. They know it will never receive the support of the public in the way gay rights legislation did.

This!

merrymouse · 25/09/2020 08:06

You only have to look at the campaigning Stonewall has done on women’s rugby to realise that there is no reasonable point where Labour will have done enough.

Meanwhile the ‘look at all these countries where self ID works’ argument looks more and more shaky as time goes on.

The GRA only makes sense as a way to accommodate people with gender dysphoria. Anything beyond me that and it all falls apart on contact with daylight.

AntsInPenzance · 25/09/2020 08:31

@NecessaryScene1

The one party (afaik) other than the Conservatives that has come out as firmly sane on this is the SDP. Only problem is they're currently even less electorally significant than the LibDems.

I'll certainly be considering voting for them next time.

You may want to check out Boris Johnson's long history of sexist quotes and behaviour before voting for him.

Calling women totty, saying women are naturally fickle, telling his replacement at the Spectator to pat women on the bottom, bringing nude pin-up calendars into the office and women who objected were 'emotional', etc, etc.

highame · 25/09/2020 08:35

Keir cannot make decisions. We are deluded if we think he will suddenly feel brave enough to take on the wokerati.

Keir is the 'fence sitter' in chief, and it makes me very sad indeed. He will try to find a way to make it seem as though he is looking after both sides. Remember Brexit, we all believed he was going to come out for Remain but he just tied it all in knots. That's what he's going to do with women's rights.

If you think otherwise, then you might as well believe TWAW

Alltheprettyseahorses · 25/09/2020 08:44

Ex member here. I will not only not vote for Labour if they fail to acknowledge women's rights and reality, I will go to my nearest marginal and campaign for their closest rival. Voting always means compromise but there is no compromise when a political party says 51% of the population don't matter and are just support humans to the 49%.

chliing19 · 25/09/2020 08:49

What really makes me angry is that women are not being listened to. That is the crux of this. And it shows us how firmly we are relegated to 2nd place to men. The Labour Party in particular should hang its head in shame. There is now a very short window of opportunity for Labour to sort itself out. Clock is ticking.