Labour continuing to support self-declaration

[Polynerd]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but the official Labour Twitter account tweeted this earlier today:
It is deeply disappointing that the government has let trans people down and dropped its plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act.
Labour is committed to equality and we continue to support updating the GRA to introduce self-declaration for trans people.

Lifelong Labour voter. So sad and disappointed to even have to consider voting Tory, never thought this day would come.

No good just writing on here. We need to be writing to the Labour party as well. Yes, again 🙄 - and keep writing and voting in their internal elections.

If we resign our memberships and lose our voices, we can't be surprised when the views of vocal TRA members are prioritised.

I actually think Labour are in a very difficult position here. Just like they were over Brexit with their voter base completely split. The Tories have a somewhat easier time on this issue with their voters being generally older and more conservative.

If you read this board it's easy to believe most/all women are GC. They aren't. Many of my Facebook friends - intelligent, sensible, early 40-somethings - are pro TWAW.

I don't know the numbers, but I suspect if Labour went full GC, or even as far as Liz Truss has gone, they may well lose more voters than they gain/keep.

I do have some sympathy for Starmer sitting on the fence about this one, at least for now. There's no point supporting a cause if you shoot yourself in the foot and lose your chance of getting into power. I will be watching and waiting over the next few years.

On the off-chance that any civil servants are keeping an eye on these pages:

I am nearly 50. Voted labour or lib dem every time. Not now.

I won't vote for parties who seek to harm women. As there are about 3 dead women a week, 5 in lockdown, all murdered by men; not protecting single sex spaces means you will harm women.

All those dead women. We don't even know their names, let alone have a march for them, or a hashtag. Can you imagine the furore if there were 5 dead trans women a week in lockdown, or even one? Can you see how obvious the misogyny is to us?

I will vote for a party which protects my right to single sex spaces. Which, at the moment, is the Tories, the Communists and Farage's lot.

So, I am politically homeless - your problem is that I am also politically engaged, and there are lots like me.

You have not taken us seriously. And we are legion.

Well I just heard Diane Abbott in R4 - talking about how she was going to continue to fight for (among other things) women’s rights. I don’t remember her stepping up though.

I actually voted labour for the first time ever last year.

Looks like the last time too.

@SerenityNowwwww

Well I just heard Diane Abbott in R4 - talking about how she was going to continue to fight for (among other things) women’s rights. I don’t remember her stepping up though.

The trouble is that whenever anyone says that now my first thought is “Do you actually mean women?”

That’s what I muttered to the radio .

@Tootsweets23

This is one of those bellwether value issues. If you can't understand why self ID gives predators access to women and children, especially as a former prosecutor who must have seen the lengths sex offending males will go to, then you can't be trusted to understand anything as you are clearly a bit dim.

Or, you do understand that self ID gives predators access to women and children, but either don't care or think it is a price worth paying to keep the wokies happy. And in that case, you can't be trusted as PM as you are an enabler of sex abusers.

If KS seriously wants to be PM he has to come out against self ID or he will lose because in neither case is he fit to lead the country.

There is no third way, he can't fence sit or triangulate his way out of this.

This nails it.

I will never vote Labour while they continue along this path.

@Codexdivinchi

Their eyes are fixed firmly on the Millennials. Many of them who don’t even vote now but will in a few years. Labour know they won’t win anytime soon because of the shit show it’s been recently so are just playing the long game.

The Millennial generation will really fuck women over. Girls just don’t accept that women have had to fight for the right that they casually have now. I know many young girls who absolutely deny that there is a wage ceiling, think that TWAW ect..

It’s depressing.

I think you are right.

However, (and it's a big 'however') I hope that they will change their minds.

I don't want to appear patronising but when the wokie sisters actually experience institutional sexism in their careers, or have children, or suddenly realise that life is not all about student politics, they may come round. Basically, when they get a bit older.

I would imagine that when they have daughters of their own they may be less keen to let some random bloke identify as a lady and get his cock out in the changing room next to them.

Or when they realise that men are still being paid more than them, but can identify as women and can take their spots on shortlists, or awards.

Or when their parents get old and have to rely on carers coming into their homes and are distressed at having and obviously male person providing personal care, and they can't do anything about it.

TBH self-ID would not really affect them at the moment, but there is a distinct lack of imagination and empathy with millenials who would chuck all women under the bus.

When they are mid 40s they will change their minds.

If you read this board it's easy to believe most/all women are GC. They aren't. Many of my Facebook friends - intelligent, sensible, early 40-somethings - are pro TWAW.

It's a shame they don't come to debate on this board. The posters who do speak up in favour of twaw never seem to answer my questions. It would be nice to have some thoughtful, intelligent discussions on the subject from different perspectives.

I will vote for a party which protects my right to single sex spaces. Which, at the moment, is the Tories, the Communists and Farage's lot.

And the SDP.

sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

No connection - not a member, and I don't think I've previously voted for them, but I certainly could.

I'm going to keep plugging them in threads like this because they recently came out with this very concrete policy position, and I'm sad they're not getting enough (any?) credit for it from GC people.

RevIMJolly

Spot on

....also labour are a shit show so def not voting them....never have...never will

I really really do not want to vote Tory.
I'm not going to vote for a party who think throwing away women's rights is a good thing.
Sigh. When Theresa May called a GE I found myself debating between a vote for MRL or Lord Bucket Head.

"The Millennial generation will really fuck women over."

I'm not so sure. DS says that the TRA faction at his university are strident, but nothing compared to the Extinction Rebellion lot. Both are avoided by many students.
One girl was told very firmly by a tutor not to bring that stuff into his room.

Quite. Most people of older generations who support this stuff haven't had to deal with the TRAs in their day-to-day lives.

If you were a student today surrounded with their antics, just imagine how much goodwill you would have towards them after 3-4 years.

@Tanith

"The Millennial generation will really fuck women over."

I'm not so sure. DS says that the TRA faction at his university are strident, but nothing compared to the Extinction Rebellion lot. Both are avoided by many students.
One girl was told very firmly by a tutor not to bring that stuff into his room.

I really really hope so!

The thing is, you can believe in trans rights (and you can even believe TWAW) without believing that self id is a good idea. Many trans people are against it. I have no issue with Labour caring for transgender people and wanting provision for them. I do have an issue with them pretending not to see the issue with self id and promoting it when there are other issues they could focus on.

@NecessaryScene1

I will vote for a party which protects my right to single sex spaces. Which, at the moment, is the Tories, the Communists and Farage's lot.

And the SDP.

sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

No connection - not a member, and I don't think I've previously voted for them, but I certainly could.

I'm going to keep plugging them in threads like this because they recently came out with this very concrete policy position, and I'm sad they're not getting enough (any?) credit for it from GC people.

Thanks for this I am going to take a deeper look into their policies, especially for education.

Many of my Facebook friends - intelligent, sensible, early 40-somethings - are pro TWAW

They probably think TWAW = #BeKind to that nice Hayley Cropper.

Ex labour party member here also, I will not vote for them whilst they still back this utter shitshow. So annoyed!

I noticed that neither the official Keir Starmer Twitter or Facebook feeds have shared any of this.

Does he think he can be personally ok by keeping quiet while other Labour MPs and social media are getting involved?

Fuck's sake - Starmer the misogyny in your party is disgusting.

Coronavirus knows who's male and who's female - how can you say you'd do better at managing the pandemic if you don't acknowledge this basic fact. Sex is real. Sex matters, biology matters.

My daughter wants single sex toilets in school (because, at a minimum - periods are real) and I will NEVER vote Labour while they want to remove the basic right to single sex toilets which ensure my daughter access to education.

@Galvantula

I noticed that neither the official Keir Starmer Twitter or Facebook feeds have shared any of this.

Does he think he can be personally ok by keeping quiet while other Labour MPs and social media are getting involved?

I think this is (almost) worse than having the courage of your convictions, Being too craven to take any sort of stand is shameful.