Labour continuing to support self-declaration

[Polynerd]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but the official Labour Twitter account tweeted this earlier today:
It is deeply disappointing that the government has let trans people down and dropped its plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act.
Labour is committed to equality and we continue to support updating the GRA to introduce self-declaration for trans people.

If he finds the optics of challenging women MPs like RLB, Nandy, Butler and Creasy too difficult, he could have a crack at Stephen Doughty for his appalling bullying behaviour of Liz Truss yesterday in the Commons.

Doughty falsely accused Truss of 'whipping up hatred'. Russell-Moyle is also spectacularly vile to and about women. Many other male Labour MPs were deeply and misogynistically unpleasant to Liz Truss yesterday, as she held her line politely and calmly.

I am a Labour Party member and a millennial. I honestly do not know who to vote for.

My younger cousins are gender critical. They have seen the nuttiness of the TRAs at close hand. They think you should be kind to transgender people but don’t like the TRAs they are extremely passionate about the environment but don’t think Extinction Rebellion is the way to go. We have had interesting conversations about social justice activism and how it alienates ordinary people. There has always been a nutty side to student politics but everyone grows out of it. When I was a student it was the same. Think of Vyvian in the Young Ones and all the people who were activists in the 1960s. A lot of good things can come from activism but the extreme ends put people off.

I honestly think very few people want this. The best think for Kier to do is to play along and then quietly drop it. The scandals are going to come out sooner or later.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

On the off-chance that any civil servants are keeping an eye on these pages:

I am nearly 50. Voted labour or lib dem every time. Not now.

I won't vote for parties who seek to harm women. As there are about 3 dead women a week, 5 in lockdown, all murdered by men; not protecting single sex spaces means you will harm women.

All those dead women. We don't even know their names, let alone have a march for them, or a hashtag. Can you imagine the furore if there were 5 dead trans women a week in lockdown, or even one? Can you see how obvious the misogyny is to us?

I will vote for a party which protects my right to single sex spaces. Which, at the moment, is the Tories, the Communists and Farage's lot.

So, I am politically homeless - your problem is that I am also politically engaged, and there are lots like me.

You have not taken us seriously. And we are legion.

Great post

Yes, fabulous post.

Anecdotally none of the young people under 30 I know (who were open about voting choice) voted for Labour at the last election. Most voted Tory, some for other parties. These are northern based young people who mostly haven't set foot in a university.

A small sample and not statistically significant but I don't think all young people buy into Labour's current politics. It's unfortunate because they are the sort of working class people that should have a place in the Labour Party.

Fuck off Labour.

I was a life long Labour voter and a member. Not any more. Politically I have no home now.

If anyone within Labour wanted to splinter off and form a new left-wing party which supported women’s rights and had stable, far-seeing tenets to their ideology - yeah that would be good. They’d get a lot of support.

@Mollyollydolly

What's so disappointing is the Truss statement was so measured and fair and most people will see this. Labour just don't seem to understand how most of the population think. There's so many things they can attack the tories on and they choose the subject where the vast majority think Truss has been very sensible. Insane.

Indeed. Truss has never struck me as cabinet material but she has obviously listened to advice on this. Credit where it's due I suppose. I think Labour are still a bit shell shocked from last December. Frightened to upset a very vocal minority?

If anyone within Labour wanted to splinter off and form a new left-wing party which supported women’s rights and had stable, far-seeing tenets to their ideology - yeah that would be good. They’d get a lot of support.

Reposting - again I'm not a member, and don't think I've voted for them before, but the SDP came out well on this and are not getting credit:

sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

Come on, folks, let's at least acknowledge them. Sure, they got 2-digit votes in my constituency last time, but better than starting from scratch surely?

Maybe Starmer's tactic is to wait for the outcome of the current waiting list of judicial reviews and appeals? Then he can just point to them and shrug and say, That's the law guys, sorry.

Which seems very cynical for a principled man.

Another who won’t vote labour if this is their intent. . I will not be part of hurting other women.

@JamieLeeCurtains

Maybe Starmer's tactic is to wait for the outcome of the current waiting list of judicial reviews and appeals? Then he can just point to them and shrug and say, That's the law guys, sorry.

Which seems very cynical for a principled man.

That's the coward's way, no sign of his supposed principles there.

@StephenKong, yes, and I will be genuinely sad if he turns out to be just another craven politician.

I know it's unrealistic to expect the messiah; but I want more than yet another very naughty boy.

I'm essentially a floating voter. I've voted Lib Dem in recent elections, but they don't know what a womanis either. Never considered spoiling my ballot paper before, but I don't see what else I can do now really.

Sorry folks he puts fence sitters in the shade.

Why can't labour get it's act together. It's so keen to get everyone on board that it has shunned it's heartlands. It can't go back there much as though it would like to. Tony Blair wanted all kids at University and learning to be politicised, so that future labour governments could be assured. M Thatcher did the same thing by selling off council houses.

Never trust tribal politics

Labour party member here.

Since JK Rowling spoke up, and since that hashtag, it's become much more apparent to the general public - understandably confused about gender ideology - just what is going on with this issue. But the Labour Party has got itself into a very bad place. IMO they've allowed bullying, mantra-chanting, and accusations of transphobia to shut down any kind of reasonable discussion or debate.

Now there seem to be some activists so far down their rabbit hole they think that treating someone like JK Rowling as a witch, and her online abusers as the vulnerable and oppressed, is a reasonable line that the public will buy. They won't. And the nastiness of these activists is going to tarnish the whole party unless Keir Starmer does something.

Labour doesn't need more youth votes in urban centres. It already has them (those that actually vote). It needs to win back older people, the Red Wall - and it also needs not to piss off the people who actually do still vote for them. They don't seem to have consulted or considered the impact on certain religious or ethnic groups for example.

I can see why Keir Starmer wants to ignore this issue, but the response we've seen to Liz Truss's sensible announcement is hardly that.

I'm not leaving - yet - but Keir Starmer has to act on this.

Another Labour voter here who won't vote for them. Starmer needs to grow some backbone sort his party out.

i actually think starmer is doing the wise thing by staying out of it.
the ideologists are so vocal in labour its easy to imagine they dominate the movement- but there are many quietly gc people in labour- let the ideologists burn themselves out...

I am a millennial. I certainly won't be voting for anyone who does this to women.

I suspect therefore that Starmer thinks it's likely that Allison Bailey, Harry Miller, Maya Forstater, Ann Sinnott & others are going to prevail.

NecessaryScene1 thanks for that link! The "Charter for Academic Freedom" looks good too. Having looked through it all I think I've found a party I could vote for while still being able at sleep at night.

@JamieLeeCurtains

I suspect therefore that Starmer thinks it's likely that Allison Bailey, Harry Miller, Maya Forstater, Ann Sinnott & others are going to prevail.

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

@Helmetbymidnight

i actually think starmer is doing the wise thing by staying out of it. the ideologists are so vocal in labour its easy to imagine they dominate the movement- but there are many quietly gc people in labour- let the ideologists burn themselves out...

That's exactly how I thought a few months ago. Not any more, because he's doing exactly the same things over and over, not just with womens rights. Even the press are recognising the pattern and they want Keir to succeed as much as some of us do

yeah but its a long game, he doesnt want enemies for three and a half years-
if i were him id try to balance all sides for now- a labour divided will take attention away from where it should be- the cons disastorous handling of covid and the hardbrexit we're heading for.

Tory voter here, although I didn't vote Tory last time as I wouldn't vote for Boris (didn't have any impact though as I am in a safe Tory seat). I have become tired of there not being a decent opposition and I had high hopes for Starmer however like others I will not vote for them if they continue to take this stance. I am hoping, as someone said upthread, that Starmer is taking things slowly and waiting to see what happens before he shows his hand.

This is such a crazy hill for them to die on.

There are so many of use who are generally politically left of centre but cannot vote for a party that pushes for a change in law that is so harmful to women while at the same time pretending they are doing something good.