Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

[umbel]

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

One thing this thread does highlight is the need to take screenshots and to archive webpages. Even if something is repeated again and again for years, the day can come when suddenly, it just never happened. At that point the evidence needs to be to hand.

People from all parts of the political landscape have been learning from Trump new ways to handle truth.

Thanks for reminding us not to let our guard down yet jj.

We need to make sure the single-sex exemptions are used and that children are not taught that it's possible to change sex, because it's not true.

I've got to hand it to the Tories, I did think this lot were pretty inept, but managing to convince a political faction to cheer when they've lost is really rather deft.

Interesting that you frame this as winners and losers. Are you suggesting that the 'trans rights' which you are arguing for are incompatible with women's rights? That if TRAs 'win' the rights (or more accurately privileges) which they want for trans people that women will inevitably lose some rights?

@testing987654321

Thanks for reminding us not to let our guard down yet jj.

We need to make sure the single-sex exemptions are used and that children are not taught that it's possible to change sex, because it's not true.

Indeed. Thanks for the encouragement JJ.

Though I still find it quite hilarious that TRAs are simultaneously crowing abour how 'we' have 'lost', nothings changing, this is so so bad for feminists, means feminsts are now barred from schools too! omgz, and so on, whilst seeming very very invested in saying these things repeatdely (almost like a new 'reeat after us'), whilst very clearly worrying about the implications of the updated guidelines and how it will affect the indoctrination of children. Very interesting.

Thanks for reminding us not to let our guard down yet jj.

This! ☝️

@OldCrone

I've got to hand it to the Tories, I did think this lot were pretty inept, but managing to convince a political faction to cheer when they've lost is really rather deft.

Interesting that you frame this as winners and losers. Are you suggesting that the 'trans rights' which you are arguing for are incompatible with women's rights? That if TRAs 'win' the rights (or more accurately privileges) which they want for trans people that women will inevitably lose some rights?

No I don't think that. I think gender critical activists, which includes lots of men, will have lost a political battle but I doubt most women will even notice, they haven't in other countries where things like Self ID have been introduced.

I doubt most women will even notice, they haven't in other countries where things like Self ID have been introduced.

Sadly, it's the most vulnerable women who feel the effects first, and they don't have much of a voice. Women like Yaniv's victims in Canada, and women in prison in Canada and Ireland, and women who are homeless or fleeing domestic violence and need a single sex space. Also women in hospital or those who need personal care due to disability. They'll all notice, and perhaps be traumatised or even assaulted. Do you care about them?

they want to ban all left wing groups from schools

Your mask is slipping. If you want to draw us into the illusory world you're creating you've got to dial down the hyperbole.

Is that a cult accusation I hear? DARVO, gaslight, guilt by association fallacies - the gang's all here! Oh well, thread nearly full, TRAs still using the playbook, but I'm still chipper because the government are still issuing sensible guidance about children and safeguarding. A point to rejoice over. For most.

Rejoice!!

@OldCrone

My understanding from what I've read and people I've spoken to who work in the sector is that the VAWG sector feel they can handle trans inclusion. Most people in the sector have never even come across a trans women, even NIA conceded to the Equalities Act enquiry that they'd never actually had to invoke the single sex exemptions. There really aren't that many trans women. Lots of refuge's use cluster flats and self contained accommodation anyway, it's not like the old days of everyone living together in one big house in most cases. The biggest problem, which I hear over and over again, is lack of funding, which is why service providers may be reticent on the idea of funding being diverted for trans only shelters when they feel they can manage the problem themselves.

I'm also not aware of this causing significant problems in prisons. Yes Karen White was an appalling fuck up which the MOJ admitted responsibility for immediately, and it shouldn;t happen again, but you can't blame trans inclusion for MOJ policies not being correctly followed. I would genuinely like to see some research done into female prisoner's views on this though. My guess is that if you asked women prisoners what they thought feminists should be concentrating on to support them whilst incarcerated then getting rid of the trans women would be pretty low down the list. People who need personal care diue to disability are unlikely to be affected, the EA doesn't apply for work in people's homes and the single sex exemption can be, and is, widely used in the care sector. Go on any large jobs site and type in "female only" and you will find 100s of care jobs invoking the exemption.

And Yaniv is slime. But people will always test laws, and bring unfair claims and that can be very stressful for the party being legislated against, you can't really blame trans people for that. And she lost in court, trans inclusive policies didn't save her.

Anyway we are veering way off topic again.

@nauticant

they want to ban all left wing groups from schools

Your mask is slipping. If you want to draw us into the illusory world you're creating you've got to dial down the hyperbole.

Not really hyperbole, the abolishment of capitalism is the long term goal of all left wing groups surely, otherwise they would be liberals who believe capitalism can be reformed into something more equitable.

So many people frantically spending sooo much time reassuring anyone (with a high boredom threshold), that there is absolutely nothing to see here, whilst digging up random and irrelevant points to contradict that which is not worth seeing, and fondly imagining that their faux, daft commiserating makes them appear anything other than desperate.

Anyone got a link to the it never happens thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

[quote persistentwoman]www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread[/quote]
Thanks. You might find this useful JJ.

@jj1968

Though I still find it quite hilarious that TRAs are simultaneously crowing abour how 'we' have 'lost', nothings changing, this is so so bad for feminists, means feminsts are now barred from schools too! omgz, and so on, whilst seeming very very invested in saying these things repeatdely (almost like a new 'reeat after us'), whilst very clearly worrying about the implications of the updated guidelines and how it will affect the indoctrination of children. Very interesting.

What's interesting is how perplexed people some people seem to be that it is entirely possible to support one part of a policy but oppose other parts. Almost as if they have learned that you must accept the entirity of an ideology, and any disgreement with any part of it is invalid. A bit like a cult. Whereas most people look at a set of guidelines and go, yeah that bits okay, not sure about this bit but not that bothered, don't mind that bit, might even be a good thing and fucking hell they want to ban all left wing groups from schools, not having that.

and fucking hell they want to ban all left wing groups from schools, not having that

Also interesting is the misrepresentation going on. This^ is utter utter rot. And quite obvious rot too.

@HecatesHat

Thanks. You might find this useful JJ.

I've seen it. Yes some trans women have committed terrible crimes, I have never said otherwise and some men have committed crimes in women's spaces. And a handful of trans women have committed a crime in a woman's space, but on a planet of 7 billion people that doesn't strike me as something that is very commonplace. You are far far more likely to be struck be lightening than ever be assaulted by a trans women in a women's space But, more importantly, and I've discussed this at length on here, there is no evidence that trans inclusion increases the risk of crime, and no reason to think crimes would be prevented by ending trans inclusive policies. Most of those crimes happened in jurisdictions without Self ID.

But, more importantly, and I've discussed this at length on here, there is no evidence that trans inclusion increases the risk of crime,

Tell that to the victims of Karen White.

But, more importantly, and I've discussed this at length on here, there is no evidence that trans inclusion increases the risk of crime, and no reason to think crimes would be prevented by ending trans inclusive policies.

Ignoring 'trans inclusion' completely, how come its widely acknowledged that unisex spaces such as changing rooms are bad for women? In that, there are more assaults on women by men in such areas? But essentially making unisex universal would never affect women?!

Crimes are recorded in self identified gender so conveniently crimes by trans people are hidden within male amd female crime statistics.

Even so it is well recorded that mixed sex spaces are more dangerous fir women.

@BatShite

But, more importantly, and I've discussed this at length on here, there is no evidence that trans inclusion increases the risk of crime, and no reason to think crimes would be prevented by ending trans inclusive policies.

Ignoring 'trans inclusion' completely, how come its widely acknowledged that unisex spaces such as changing rooms are bad for women? In that, there are more assaults on women by men in such areas? But essentially making unisex universal would never affect women?!

You're the ones always going on about third spaces. Most trans people are happy with things as they are, with perhaps some additional provision provided for non binary people.

I'm not sure it is widely acknowledged by the way. All I've ever seen is a story in the Sunday Times who didn't share their data or methodology. I think it's something that should be looked at by proper researchers.

The suggestion of third spaces has what to do with making current female spaces mixed sex?

Also bollocks to it only being sinday times and questionable methods

Mixed sex areas being not good for women has been acknowledged since before the ridiculous self ID thing was ever mentioned.

Apologies again for using changing rooms. My memory appears to be hazy, the studies have been on mixed sex hospital wards, and in care settings. Always bad for women. Am off now, when memory fucks, its pointless posting. Have a good night jj.