Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

[umbel]

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

Can we stop with mixed or identity based toilets too. If you currently have a fufu use the female. If you currently have a winky use the male.

@jj1968

Given the guidance goes live this week then presumably Stonewall won't have to change anything, the DfE are recommended them as things stand, so they must believe Stonewalls current position on trans people is line with the guidelines.

I don't understand why certain people are so upset in this case, if everything carries on as before and kids can continue to be convinced that they are actually the opposite sex because they like the 'wrong' toys. All as usual then. So the kickoffs in certain quarters are rather odd, I think.

Also I have to say agree with much of stonewalls advice on preventing anti trans bullying. I just disagree that girls knowing that boys are not girls is bullying or bigoted. I don't want any kid bullied for being gender non conforming, fuck that.

As Stonewall have targeted education it will take some time to assess what is their normal standard good inclusive material and what is anti safeguarding, anti women / girls or breaching the guidelines in some way. Stonewall has produced lots of excellent anti bullying materials. Some of us have attended training events where Stonewall have presented great materials. Some of us have even been members of Stonewall until they forgot what women and lesbians are.
This isn't about getting rid of an LGBT organisation like Stonewall. This is about the state reminding groups who have crossed boundaries that child safeguarding, always takes priority over political dogma and that schools are not venues for queer theory advocates or other extremist ideas to target children with.

@BatShite

Also I have to say agree with much of stonewalls advice on preventing anti trans bullying. I just disagree that girls knowing that boys are not girls is bullying or bigoted. I don't want any kid bullied for being gender non conforming, fuck that.

Do they issue advice in respect going the other way? Maybe how kids and young people can ensure that they treat others well and respect their dignity and privacy too?

This isn't about getting rid of an LGBT organisation like Stonewall. This is about the state reminding groups who have crossed boundaries that child safeguarding, always takes priority over political dogma and that schools are not venues for queer theory advocates or other extremist ideas to target children with.

Quite.

Do they issue advice in respect going the other way? Maybe how kids and young people can ensure that they treat others well and respect their dignity and privacy too?

Not that I have seen., Which is unfortunate really.

Stonewall is currently compromised not only by their peddling anti-female and anti-safeguarding propeganda and unscientific ideologies, but also because they are clearly now a political organisation. As such they must now be kept away from schools. The fact that they, the communist party, or flat-earthers also produce some ok materials is irrelevant.

Can someone help me with my letter to school?

When I was on the new guidance page, it links through to a document called Equality Act 2010: advice for schools. That documents is older and has paragraphs about children being covered under the gender reassignment characteristic of the EA2010. I don't get this, I didn't think children were covered by this, I thought gender reassignment meant a GRC and you have to be 18?

I'm basically trying to clarify in the letter whether the school is legally obliged or not obliged to take the simple claim of "I now identify as a boy/girl" at face value. I get that the new guidance is saying materials oughtn't to be suggesting to pupils that they might be trans, but what is the situation if a trans-identifying pupil/their parents forced the issue over toilets/changing rooms and cites the "EA2010:advice for schools" document on gender reassignment?

Is the correct response for the school to say "no indeed we won't discriminate against a transgirl but that is compared to other male pupils and btw you still can't enter the girls' changing rooms because they are single sex and you are both biologically and legally male"?

Hope this question makes some sense. Thanks.

We currently have a very right wing Tory government with a large majority.

Why did that come about, do we think?

Great news

Is the correct response for the school to say "no indeed we won't discriminate against a transgirl but that is compared to other male pupils and btw you still can't enter the girls' changing rooms because they are single sex and you are both biologically and legally male"?

Yep; that's what the law says. The guidance around the Equality Act misrepresents the law (this is being legally challenged) but precedent re: the correct comparator was set a few years back so far as I recall.

A kid in school could conceivably have the protected characteristic "gender reassignment" if they're intending to undergo transition as adults. But a male child cannot be legally female because under-18s can't get a GRC. Without a GRC everyone is legally their birth sex.

Thanks very much Tyro

I see that this is trending on Twitter and it is twisted to mean this government is being The authoritarian, thought police, and school are not allowed to critique capitalism or teach Marxism.

Why do mermaids keep saying it is ok because they don’t train kids only the teachers? The guidance says not to work with these organisations and that would also mean not allowing them to train the teachers which is quite clearly ‘working with them’?

Indeed. Trickle down of their "train the trainer" training to indoctrinate children with gender ideology indirectly is clearly not going to be acceptable.

@BolloxtoGender

I see that this is trending on Twitter and it is twisted to mean this government is being The authoritarian, thought police, and school are not allowed to critique capitalism or teach Marxism.

Twitter is full of wazzocks.

Our government is not “very right wing” by any stretch. Utter hyperbole, usually spouted by Corbynites in my experience. Current gov are pretty centrist.

Why do mermaids keep saying it is ok because they don’t train kids only the teachers? The guidance says not to work with these organisations and that would also mean not allowing them to train the teachers which is quite clearly ‘working with them’?

Yep, another case of mermaids simply failing to understand. As usual. Also the teacher training then trickles down to the kids. And the government says no. Time to pack up and find a new job mermaids. There really isn't a role for you to be working with other people's children anymore, either directly or indirectly.🤷

@lady69

Our government is not “very right wing” by any stretch. Utter hyperbole, usually spouted by Corbynites in my experience. Current gov are pretty centrist.

I would agree with this. Very right wing indeed...

Mind the majority of the far left reckon anyone right of the centre, even slightly (hell, have seen even left of the centre described as far right as they are not 'left enough') is far right so...best ignored.

Why do mermaids keep saying it is ok because they don’t train kids only the teachers?

Spreading the responsibility around. To dodge accusations of directly indoctrinating kids?

Perhaps someone at Mermaids can explain why they were training the teachers if it wasn’t going to impact on the children.

They just really enjoy chatting to teachers. There's no suggestion that the teachers will be teaching the children about what they learn at the training. That's not what teachers do. Teachers just go into schools because they need something to get them out of the house for bit.

Besides, Mermaids don't need to go into schools to push their ideology, they just make propaganda video ads and target them at child-focused internet content.

There's also never been any suggestion that they would get involved with governors who have concerns about biology, the law, and safeguarding. And that they'd be asked in to do that by the local authority in an active case.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7070773/Vicar-resigns-schools-plan-eight-year-old-pupils-sex-change-secret-parents.html

[quote beargrass]There's also never been any suggestion that they would get involved with governors who have concerns about biology, the law, and safeguarding. And that they'd be asked in to do that by the local authority in an active case.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7070773/Vicar-resigns-schools-plan-eight-year-old-pupils-sex-change-secret-parents.html[/quote]
May 2019, I see it was.

@Aesopfable

Stonewall is currently compromised not only by their peddling anti-female and anti-safeguarding propeganda and unscientific ideologies, but also because they are clearly now a political organisation. As such they must now be kept away from schools. The fact that they, the communist party, or flat-earthers also produce some ok materials is irrelevant.

But they won't be kept away from schools. The new guidelines specifically recommend using Stonewall lesson plans and resources in RSE classes.

@BatShite
I don't understand why certain people are so upset in this case, if everything carries on as before and kids can continue to be convinced that they are actually the opposite sex because they like the 'wrong' toys. All as usual then. So the kickoffs in certain quarters are rather odd, I think.

The kickoffs have nothing at all to do with trans people. Not everyone thinks this is the only political issue that matters.

@lady69

Our government is not “very right wing” by any stretch. Utter hyperbole, usually spouted by Corbynites in my experience. Current gov are pretty centrist.

Try telling that disabled people stripped of benefits in the middle of a global pandemic after dubious cost cutting assessments, or refugee children locked up in detention centres awaiting deportation or single mums living in B&Bs with their kids because the government won't build enough social housing or pay adequate benefits. The entitlement on here sometimes is breath-taking.