Kelly-Jay currently being arrested in Leeds

[BettyFloop]

She's live streaming on YT

@MilleniumHallsWalledGarden

It was never love, it was always neediness and subjugation

This is what I would tell my younger self. It's not love and it's not even desire. It's just a power dynamic, and women are on the losing side.

absolutely.

^ oops, (previously posted about on another thread) nc fail

It was never love, it was always neediness and subjugation

You're speaking for yourself. Speaking for me personally, I was very much in love as a young woman. It's ridiculous to state that love in your youth is just neediness. Ageist to boot. Speak for yourself.

It is definitely the case that the great boon of the menopause is "no longer giving a flying fuck." As others have said upthread, if we could bottle this and give it to our younger selves it would be fucking amazing.

@SorryImKnew

It was never love, it was always neediness and subjugation

You're speaking for yourself. Speaking for me personally, I was very much in love as a young woman. It's ridiculous to state that love in your youth is just neediness. Ageist to boot. Speak for yourself.

Speak for yourself.

I AM speaking for myself. This is the complete quote, note the last two sentences::

I too was duped and taken for a ride so many times, all through trying to be nice, to be generous, to comply, to win him through sheer niceness, convert him, prove that "love conquers all". And it doesn't. It was never love, it was always neediness and subjugation and if I could I'd go back and give my younger self a good slap. And tell myself, LTB!!!!

Our lived experience is different- that's fine. Hindsight and age has given me a different perspective on my younger relationships.

Tangentially, as years go on, reflecting on past relationships has been useful
Acknowledging the impact of damaging experiences (with men/boys in my family in earlier life) on relationships in my later life has given me a bit more insight, and made me realise that my boundaries and expectations were completely fucked. I was unfortunate enough to encounter a lot of shitty men.

We are allowed to speak for ourselves; get over it.

Excellent name facefullofcake!

First part of your post Malaha was

*But of late I've been reading a few of the relationships threads and AIBU, and the stories of men duping (young) women, their aggressive, narcissistic behaviour -- it's horrific! and at the same time so familiar. I too was duped and taken for a ride so many times," thus implying that all young women are idiots and you're a wise old owl.

I also distinguish between "being in love" which I was, many times and Love. There's a huge difference, and I couldn't tell that difference as a young woman.
As the above poster says: Hindsight and age has given me a different perspective on my younger relationships.

I fully agree. Even as a young woman I was capable of great love, but I didn't have the maturity to foster it. Love takes time to grow out of being in love, and it needs a partner who can nourish it.

Is it only women who get 'wise' with age, or do men do so too?

Malahaha is bang on with this bit especially:

and it needs a partner who can nourish it.

@SorryImKnew

First part of your post Malaha was

*But of late I've been reading a few of the relationships threads and AIBU, and the stories of men duping (young) women, their aggressive, narcissistic behaviour -- it's horrific! and at the same time so familiar. I too was duped and taken for a ride so many times," thus implying that all young women are idiots and you're a wise old owl.

Yes, and I stand by that assessment. Some of those stories, the ones I'm specifically referring to, ARE awful and the women concerned ARE being taken for a ride. That's why so many of the answers are adamantly LTB.

Obviously, it's not always young women who are duped. Just today I saw a FB post about yet another 50-something retired woman who fell in love with an African man 30 years younger, married him, thought he was the great love of her life, only to have it all fall to pieces when he duped her out of £18000. I think it's in today's DM.

@Butterer

I read it more as 'it happened to me and I'm shocked that even now other women experience it too'.

Yes, that's how I read it Butterer

Everyone needs the wisdom from women who have seen this for themselves

Obviously, it's not always young women who are duped. Just today I saw a FB post about yet another 50-something retired woman who fell in love with an African man 30 years younger, married him, thought he was the great love of her life, only to have it all fall to pieces when he duped her out of £18000. I think it's in today's DM.

That's awful.

Some men are really boring and awful.

@SorryImKnew

Nothing to do with feminism that you were in a series of shitty relationships. Nothing to do with this thread either for that matter.

Well... it does relate to sex based and women's rights, in terms of to access to single sex mental health services, health care, refuges etc. - I don't like assuming, but I'm guessing these topics would have been likely addressed?

I take your point that the shitty relationships were my choice, and the impact and consequences of them shouldn't be discussed on the thread/aren't a feminist issue. Should I also apply that to needing support after being abused when I was a kid? Or is it just the post-16 life choice based damage that's irrelevant?

Oh, I didn't see this part of your quote:
thus implying that all young women are idiots and you're a wise old owl.

I'd love to be a wise old owl! I am certainly a lot wiser than I was then; that tends to happen if you are trying to learn from your mistakes!

But to your post: yes, the MN women I am referring to specifically HAVE been duped. That does not mean that ALL young women have been duped. What a strange conclusion to draw from that statement! I know lots of women who married young, to good men, the marriage lasted, and they lived happily ever after!

We should try and celebrate the decent, smashing men. I know a few. But it's hard sometimes.

‘Is Feminism Chat just a tiny bunch of women who blindly praise and pander to each other?’

Feminist chat is rebound for being a really argumentative part of Mumsnet.

Renowned not rebound!