Kelly-Jay currently being arrested in Leeds

[BettyFloop]

She's live streaming on YT

Butterer

Sorry you had to go through such trauma.

[quote MilleniumHallsWalledGarden]I've just watched Posie's debrief video. The police's reaction to being told her phone was still streaming must have been a sight to see. Good, I'm glad they've been shown up for what they are.

I've never watched any of her videos before this week, now I've seen the Haddock one and this. I like how cool and calm she seems despite the provocation.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWvfOzJz8QE[/quote]
@MilleniumHallsWalledGarden

If you've not seen her videos, and admire how calm she is, then you should see her when she does let go and becomes (righteously) angry. This one about Daniel Radcliffe was one of her best, IMO:

She tends to reserve those emotions for her speeches and monologues like that. But she won't let herself lose control if provoked in person. Just ice-cool firmness and a spine of steel.

Oh, and also check out her hilarious report of attending a libfem meeting and being really difficult. The way she tells the tale, she could have had an alternative career in stand-up comedy...

She is a legend.

Butterer someone more intelligent than me can say something but it seems to be the epitomy of patriarchy to get the victims of it to believe that they are bad for being traumatised by it....

Female socialisation means: put others first, serve others first, mummy eats last and least after everyone else's needs are met, and good women do this without mentioning or complaining about it .

It's also instinct. Having and raising children does make you selfless. As a grandmother, presently living door-on-door with my daughter who has a 2 year old, I observe this every day. There is no way she could raise that little child without endless understanding, putting the child first, putting her own desires and needs in second place.

Being selfless is not in itself a bad thing, or a weak thing; in fact, I believe that being selfless ie not putting your own needs first activates a deeper strength and resilience that actually has more staying power, more courage, fortitude, determination, tenacity, than all the ego-driven power-trips in the world. No narcissist can hold up against someone like that. It comes from underneath; I'd call it heart-power, though I know even that sounds soppy to some people, when it isn't. It's quite the opposite. Never underestimate that instinct: to care for others weaker than ourselves.

We should not have to do this for men. We should not have to lower ourselves to men. It's why hand-on fatherhood is so good for men, in that it teaches them selflessness, to be good, strong men.

That ability to be truly selfless really only applies, and should apply, in dealing with young children. It's why it's often grandmothers (freed from having to please males, to catch a mate) can see through the ego-fuelled games and tantrums of men. It's why we recognise narcissism when it rears its ugly head and are willing to chop that head off, disobey it. It's why, once we have uncovered that latent power (and you don't have to be an actual mother to feel it) there is no stopping us.

It's no coincidence that the pushback is coming from those who would do anything to protect children, and other women, even at the cost of their own safety and comfort, a la Posie.

This was a bit rambling, a bit of a rant. Sorry.

If you've not seen her videos, and admire how calm she is, then you should see her when she does let go and becomes (righteously) angry. This one about Daniel Radcliffe was one of her best, IMO:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZyrSrSUcw

I LOVE the Daniel Radcliffe one! Oh my. What a woman.

...one woman - be it me or someone else - being just fine and dandy with eg transwomen in refuges did not mean that I was able to consent on behalf of all women, despite their objections.

This has always been the crux of it to me. That 'be kind' means centering men, rather than other women. Female socialisation is designed to both put the needs of others first and to see other women as less important than men and indeed a potential problem/threat. 'Be kind' ultimately maintains the status quo. It's also means people can opt out of having to think about difficult things. When I ask questions of people supporting the erosion of women's rights, like what about victims of DV/sexual abuse?, those with cultural sensitivities etc, this is the point at which they roll their eyes and imply that you're being difficult or unpleasant i.e. by forcing them to think about the difficult choices we face. Many women are afraid of strange men, many women have experienced DV or sexual assault, regardless of my situation that's enough for me. It should be enough for everyone.

[quote SpartacusAutisticus]Worth a read:

pbandj.substack.com/p/arrested-for-feminism[/quote]
Thank you for posting that. A beautiful, moving article and I'm just sitting here right now, having read it, asking myself how the fuck did we get here where women in the UK are silenced by the police for seeking to speak about their rights, just as they are in Iran or Saudi Arabia.

How?

Unlike the women in those countries, we are supposed to be protected from that happening. In law. We are supposed to have equal rights. In law. We are supposed to have freedom of speech. In law.

How the fuck can we get to a brave young woman being arrested for not stopping to read a women's rights speech?

Make no mistake here, the arrests of Kellie-Jay and this young women are not the same. KJ was arrested for refusing to give her details after being told she would receive a fine for breaking the Covid regulations. She refused because she hadn't done anything wrong and this is a legitimate act of peaceful civil protest and it gives her a chance to argue her case in court.

But this young, slight and above all peaceful woman was arrested for refusing to stop reading a speech about women's rights. Nothing else. Police told her to stop. Nonetheless, she persisted. Police told her to stop again and she reads on, while another woman tells the plainclothes officer that the speaker is not breaking any rules because this is a political action. Then the young woman walks away while reading her speech and stops again and keeps reading and the police move in.

We cannot accept that. For if we do, we allow the police to silence our voices.

And all of this in a city, where the illegal trade of women's bodies has been declared lawful in a "carefully managed zone" that powerfully signals where women's rights are best exercised in Leeds.

In the service of men.

It's no coincidence that the pushback is coming from those who would do anything to protect children, and other women, even at the cost of their own safety and comfort, a la Posie.

^ This^

I think you've made pertinent points extremely well Malahaha.

This was a bit rambling, a bit of a rant.

I found it very interesting. This is one of the current cruxes of feminism, isn't it?

Separating out what comes naturally with the biology of being female, is an intrinsic part of that biology, and separating that out from the socialised disadvantage that society has assigned to it. I saw a very good comment here this weekend about having children and caretaking families becoming seen as a hobby women do on the side of their lives, and there are several threads on the board from this weekend where the mother of a family has dropped everything instantly to prioritise the needs of a child - in one case the child dangerously ill - where the male parent has continued with his own plans and expects others to pick up and deal with the child's needs until he is ready and willing to attend to them.

The biology is crucial: woman is not a feeling, it's not a set of stereotypes, it's specific to the biology that creates these circumstances, experiences, instincts. But the biology equally cannot be used as a reason for accepting and normalising disadvantage.

@TirisfalPumpkin

I was there too yesterday, and I've lost a lot of faith the the police as a result of how it was handled.

I agree with a jazz band next time...... it's a shame that my instrument is a piano, as they're not very portable!

@FuriousAndFrustrated - your username sums up my feelings well.

I didn't used to fear the police, as I felt that if I'd done nothing wrong, I'd be treated fairly. Now I don't believe that's true any more - at least in West Yorkshire.

I will bring my sousaphone and we can play the wrongful arrest blues next time.

That ability to be truly selfless really only applies, and should apply, in dealing with young children. It's why it's often grandmothers (freed from having to please males, to catch a mate) can see through the ego-fuelled games and tantrums of men. It's why we recognise narcissism when it rears its ugly head and are willing to chop that head off, disobey it. It's why, once we have uncovered that latent power (and you don't have to be an actual mother to feel it) there is no stopping us

Love this Malahaha. It’s how I feel too.

Although I am also having to put my feelings to one side in my dealings with my teenage daughter and it’s getting a bit tired now. I am ready to rediscover myself I think but the me that is emerging is a very angry, politically motivated, fucking harpy. I’m reclaiming the word harpy by the way .

Harpy and proud. Add that to your ludicrous LGBTQSDFG alphabet soup wokesters. Oh. Not interested in the lived experience of pissed off middle aged women?. You do surprise me.

Malahaha hits the nail on the head.

I went through the menopause and came out quietly furious on the other side. My user name is was chosen on a paricularly cross day.

I have said to my DC for years that it is hard, bordering on the impossible, to pick apart which of the differences between men and women are genetic, and which are imposed and groomed by societal norms. My hormones were what kept me going when my DC were small. Societal norms would not have been tough enough.

You go through menopause and your hormones change, so you start to understand yourself better. I'm with mollscroll: an angry harpy.

There's an extra spark to my ire since women discussing their experiences started getting tagged as weaponising them

God I saw Piers Morgan going down this road re JKR and I thought, what a fucking bastard.

Butterer

I might get me one of them scold's bridles

NecessaryScene1 thank you, I'll take a look!

I've been angry my whole life. What surprised me when I had DC was that I felt exactly the same as before. No miraculous hormones had made me more patient or selfless. I haven't gone through menopause yet but if it makes me even angrier than I am now I'm not sure I'll cope!

That talk upthread about Mumsnet

Why the fuck would anyone think that women wouldn't discuss feminism etc with other women?

They say oh MN has radicalised women. All they want to think apart with their useless dainty brains is nappies and clothes. Obviously something must have subverted them.

The idea that if course women, mothers even, care about women's rights, amongst a massive host of other stuff, seems to be a constant surprise.

Stereotypes are so strong. Everyone knows loads of women who do loads of things that do not comply with stereotype. But still this constant surprise.

Pisses me off.

Like the police not believing Posie was the organiser. Why the fuck not? Women are demonstrating, someone else must be pulling the strings?

Fuck them.

mobile.twitter.com/KarlPhelan/status/1308013142140743682

The crazy are trying to cancel Adam Wagner. Adam has never said he supports feminists, never said he agrees with Posie. What he did say was the police were wrong on this point.

It seems to me that some people just don't believe that any other opinions are to be tolerated. Even people who are generally supportive of their cause cannot speak freely without fear of an abusive response. Why have human rights to freedom of association, ideas, conscience become so controversial?

They say oh MN has radicalised women. All they want to think apart with their useless dainty brains is nappies and clothes. Obviously something must have subverted them.

Mumsnet informs me, but Motherhood radicalised me.

It isn't Mumsnet which exposes a woman's true status in our society, it's vulnerability, and motherhood is one great big universal vulnerability.

@PicsInRed

They say oh MN has radicalised women. All they want to think apart with their useless dainty brains is nappies and clothes. Obviously something must have subverted them.

Mumsnet informs me, but Motherhood radicalised me.

It isn't Mumsnet which exposes a woman's true status in our society, it's vulnerability, and motherhood is one great big universal vulnerability.

This is so spot on. Motherhood peeled layers off me that I've had to grow back, they're thicker now. I've been exposed in ways I never had before, had to fight harder. I've always considered myself a feminist, but I didn't really understand how little society cares about women until I'd given birth.

That is a lovely post Malahaha

Well done Posie. Great video.

Well done all the women that were there.