Is self ID finally off the table?

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

Sorry, no share token, hopefully one will be along soon:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/changing-gender-to-get-cheaper-but-self-identify-scheme-is-off-0twtdw5fr

[highame]

The Labour Party would be mad to support self-ID. They know what public opinion is and they know that they have lost lots of support through being Londoncentric and too MC.

They're just trying to hang on to their numbers, biggest party in Europe. Fat lot of good that does you if your women members can't debate

A

[Kazakaren]

Anyway, if GRA reform is properly dropped this does suck, but as someone without a Gender Recognition Certificate I'll just have to rely on the "self-ID" female sex marker on checks notes my passport, my NHS records, my bank records, my insurance, and my employment details.

Your self ID does not provide you with a legal right to be seen as a woman, or access women's sex segregated spaces / services. But thanks for letting us know the 'loop hole' you, as a legal male, will be planning to use to access women's spaces. We will be campaigning to close those loopholes down too.

[highame]

Any f**@king* loop hole comes into my changing room will get an earful

[weaverbirds]

Will be interesting to see if this leads to Scottish Government doubling down on their determination to press ahead with their TWAW agenda. They seem almost fanatically wedded to the ideology in spite of growing public concern.

Welsh Govt don't have legislative powers in this matter but have been very keen to open up women's single-sex spaces to anyone who wants them. In theory this decision should encourage some reflection but actual roll-back of Stonewall law will take a long time I suspect.

Tuesday's ruling will be so important.

[MichelleofzeResistance]

Be who you want: I'll celebrate that. Diversity is great. Demand that no females can no longer have female only provision because you want to be in all of it, even to their detriment and this means nothing?

What is there to celebrate in that other than yay you squashed down the females and you won?

This is the difference. TWATW - fabulous, let's have more and additional resources and facilities and greater diversity for them to have the freedom to live as they want. TW are not females who sometimes need things of their own for their own particular equality, inclusion, access, intersectionality. (Remember those words?)

[highame]

weaverbirds I believe the EA isn't devolved nor the GRC. The work the SNP have been doing is skirting around, to avoid directly impinging on UK law.

[Beamur]

This is good news.
Ultimately I think it's good for trans people too as this should do away with the chancers and bullies. It shouldn't be a trivial thing to change the sex you are legally recognised as, but the mess that conflating gender with sex has created may take some undoing.

[Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel]

Thank goodness and thank you for posting.

[Kazakaren]

Ultimately I think it's good for trans people too as this should do away with the chancers and bullies

Yes. I agree with this.

[FairfaxAikman]

Presumably this is only England though?

[TyroSaysMeow]

Strictly speaking Stonewall are right that trans people's legal rights haven't changed here. They didn't have the legal right to access single-sex facilities designated for the opposite sex before this announcement and they still don't have it now.

This is a promising step but I agree it needs to go much further. Production of a GRC is not currently necessary to change sex markers anywhere except a birth certificate. The GRC is an indicator that the individual has passed the gatekeeping mechanisms designed to prevent sexual predators from accessing the accommodations that were put in place for the benefit of a very small number of people with a diagnosed medical condition. The fact it's illegal to ask to see it means we have self-ID in practice.

Of course, everyone calls it gatekeeping, but really it's safeguarding. It shouldn't be illegal to require proof that appropriate safeguarding checks have been undertaken.

[gardenbird48]

Self id is trending on twitter and some people are working hard to clarify the evidence against it.

[DeliciouslyFemale]

@Fallingirl

Followers of Stonewall law are likely to carry on regardless. We need Liz Truss to state very clearly, in no uncertain terms, no exceptions, that single sex spaces are to remain single sex.

Including schools and prisons.

I think we need to get away from the habit of calling it Stonewall law’, as those new to this discussion may interpret it as an actual law, rather than what it is, which is manipulation and lies, about the actual law.

[ArabellaScott]

Stonewall propaganda.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

@SophocIestheFox

Fantastic news

Women mobilised to make this happen. We stood on the streets handing out leaflets telling people what was being proposed and your average woman on the Clapham omnibus was horrified and immediately saw the problems with self ID.

I know the lurking monitors think this is all done by bots funded by evangelical money, but this really proves what nonsense that is. The consultation was goosed for TRAs by the actions of their own side, doing what they accused gender critical feminists of doing - whipping up moral outrage, encouraging boilerplate responses from anyone and everyone, misleading and obfuscating what was being proposed etc. In the meantime, women mobilised a grass roots campaign to defend the erosion of our rights, and I am really hopeful now that this has prevailed.

Yes!

When sleeping women wake, mountains move.

[DaisiesandButtercups]

Stonewall propaganda is a much better phrase!

I absolutely agree with those who say if we are to keep the legal fiction then yes in order to change sex markers on passport, driving licence etc a GRC should be required and asked for. When any of these official documents come up for renewal those who do not have a GRC at that time should be reverted to birth sex.

The “gate keeping” for GRC’s should be rigorous. As Tyro says this is a matter of safeguarding and also making sure that a person is 110% certain before they change sex permanently that it will not be regretted later. Affirmation models will not discover those who are not truly suffering dysphoria. Surely hormones and surgery should only be offered towards the end of the application process? Everyone who applies should be told the truth that they cannot genuinely change sex and that this simply a means to help overcome unbearable suffering of dysphoria as part of the process of consent to treatment and obtaining a GRC.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

The trouble with needing a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria (which would anyway be very easy to fake), is that there are a lot of young woke-bro doctors around now who support self-ID.

The British Medical Association passed a motion earlier this month supporting self-ID with a sworn statement.
www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/leading-doctors-affirm-trans-and-non-binary-rights-in-healthcare

[OvaHere]

Jo March doing sterling work in the comments section again

*waves at Jo and offers up some and for her Sunday morning efforts

[ArabellaScott]

Yep, good work Jo March and also Jacky Holyoake.

[OvaHere]

Yes. Just spotted Jacky too.

[ChattyLion]

I agree that the cost of government admin of a voluntary procedure would be related to the cost of admin. Like say with marriage certificates but I am sure there are better examples. Has there been a massive cut in admin costs? Are they minimising the checks they do? Why should this be subsidised? What evidence was there of cost as a barrier for adults? Will they release that?

[Dreeple]

Does this mean the stories about Boris’ girlfriend ensuring self-ID went through were a bit silly?

[yourhairiswinterfire]

Edward Lord is on the case, tweeting the Liberal Democrat's document on transphobia.

God, that tweet in your first screenshot. Another arrogant idiot trying to tell women how to be feminists 🙄

I'm sick to death of hearing the term intersectional now. Feminism excludes penis-havers. Get the fuck over it.

They're so tedious.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Jo March, Jacky Holyoake and SilverLady doing sterling work as usual! Along with many others

[TweeBree]

@Dreeple

Does this mean the stories about Boris’ girlfriend ensuring self-ID went through were a bit silly?

I was thinking the rumours they had broken up must be true and he's ignoring her wishes (as he should have done anyway!).