Is self ID finally off the table?

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

Sorry, no share token, hopefully one will be along soon:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/changing-gender-to-get-cheaper-but-self-identify-scheme-is-off-0twtdw5fr

I also think that it should be considered completely fine to ask to see evidence of GRC when relevant, just as it is fine to ask for evidence of age, sex, pregnancy, disability etc when relevant.

Otherwise you still effectively have self ID.

Fantastic news

Women mobilised to make this happen. We stood on the streets handing out leaflets telling people what was being proposed and your average woman on the Clapham omnibus was horrified and immediately saw the problems with self ID.

I know the lurking monitors think this is all done by bots funded by evangelical money, but this really proves what nonsense that is. The consultation was goosed for TRAs by the actions of their own side, doing what they accused gender critical feminists of doing - whipping up moral outrage, encouraging boilerplate responses from anyone and everyone, misleading and obfuscating what was being proposed etc. In the meantime, women mobilised a grass roots campaign to defend the erosion of our rights, and I am really hopeful now that this has prevailed.

I hope this is true.

And I hope now that everybody that changed their policies to "get ahead of the law" broke the law now go back and put things right.

Well done everyone!

The article specifically mentions prisons and changing rooms

Perhaps after Wed another round of letters to M&S, Centre Parcs, Gyms etc are required as the biros ness that went ahead with Self ID, outside of the law, trying to get ahead of the law, are operating outside of the law and should be reminded.

Good news. A foothold on sanity, at least.

Agree that the response to this will be very interesting. Especially as the issue is now far more visible than it was at the time of the consultation. 'No debate' is history.

We're almost ready to start having that discussion, in public, with evidence, references and respectful dialogue. Several issues in court soon that will shed more light on these issues.

Bring it on.

Positive news to start my Sunday off . And news that is going to find favour with the majority of the public.

I think, thought someone may know better, that Ann Sinnott gave EHRC until 22nd (they needed and extension) to say whether they would make very visible their errors. I will be interested to see if Liz Truss making this announcement will get them to go with all the requests. They bloody well should it's tax payers money.

I expect there will be other items in the announcement. She did say she would firm up the EA for women.

This is a huge relief if true. Thanks for sharing!

Excellent news!

Polls suggest voters are sympathetic to trans rights but do not support transgender women with male anatomy having access to female-only facilities such as prisons and changing rooms.

There you have it.

And all despite the gaming of the consultation. There IS no coherent argument for self ID.

Which I'm betting was oh so evident from the number of 'be kind or else' responses.

It is excellent news, but it doesn't change anything for the better either, as Dr Ruth Pearce says on twitter

The Times reports that the Tories are dropping plans to enable "self-ID" for people wanting to change the sex marker on their birth certificate.

Trans people will continue to legally access name changes, public toilets, changing rooms etc, on the basis of self-determination.

The Times of course have once again confused things by referring to changing rooms in an article about the Gender Recognition Act, which is only relevant to 1) privacy protections, 2) the sex marker on birth certificates, and 3) by extension, marriage.

Anyway, if GRA reform is properly dropped this does suck, but as someone without a Gender Recognition Certificate I'll just have to rely on the "self-ID" female sex marker on checks notes my passport, my NHS records, my bank records, my insurance, and my employment details.

Trans people will continue to legally access name changes, public toilets, changing rooms etc, on the basis of self-determination.

Men can't acquire the protected characteristic of the female sex willy nilly, now.

Public attitude to the customs and protocols was always the basis for much of this.

This is just the beginning.

Challenges to the EHCR, stonewall law, the Tavistock, and the systematic reversal of regulatory capture has started.

And with this announcement, the government have indicated that not only are they listening to the public, they know how the system is being gamed.

Anyway, if GRA reform is properly dropped this does suck, but as someone without a Gender Recognition Certificate I'll just have to rely on the "self-ID" female sex marker on checks notes my passport, my NHS records, my bank records, my insurance, and my employment details.

Male entitlement shining through here.

Trans people will continue to legally access name changes, public toilets, changing rooms etc, on the basis of self-determination

I’m not sure I follow your point - the law never has allowed access to single sex spaces for opposite sex trans people.

Hopefully this statement will mean that the ‘old school’ trans people will carry on as they were (I have no idea what the toilet habits of the trans lady I worked with were and that worked for both of us). This means that everyone (Businesses, security staff, public) should be able to stand firm and legitimately question the presence of people who appear to be in the wrong place.

I guess they might need to clarify what they mean by living in the acquired sex as part of the GRC process and make clear the legal limitations on that ie no access to single sex spaces and maybe this is where the offer of third spaces could come in.
Also, if this does become an election issue it has going to open it up to further scrutiny and open discussion and I don’t think it will survive that.

@highame

I think, thought someone may know better, that Ann Sinnott gave EHRC until 22nd (they needed and extension) to say whether they would make very visible their errors. I will be interested to see if Liz Truss making this announcement will get them to go with all the requests. They bloody well should it's tax payers money.

I expect there will be other items in the announcement. She did say she would firm up the EA for women.

Yes, the timing is interesting. It is indeed this Tuesday that the GEO and EHRC must respond to Ann.

@Badbanana

Labours response to this will be the sole factor that decides if they get my vote next time around.

Shower if pure shite that the Tory’s are, I’ll keep voting for them if Labour insists on trying to claw this Self-ID crap back,

I absolutely agree. I never ever in my life thought I would vote Tory, but if Labour doesn't get its shit together over this and start supporting women, I will be ticking that Conservative box in a few years time.

Men can't acquire the protected characteristic of the female sex willy nilly, now

But that doesn't really matter now that literally everything apart from birth certificates is self-ID any way. This announcement is just to maintain the status quo. Ending things like selfID for passports, driving licenses, women's spaces etc required the government to actually do something.

We don't know what the full statement will be, yet. Maybe there are plans to clarify and strengthen the exemptions in the EA? If not, we will start campaigning on that.

We all know this isn't anywhere near over, just a small foothold.

Labours response to this will be the sole factor that decides if they get my vote next time around

Same here, although I worry they will go full TWAW.

I'll just have to rely on the "self-ID" female sex marker on checks notes my passport, my NHS records, my bank records, my insurance, and my employment details.

Shows exactly why a huge amount of work is still needed, to undo Stonewall law, and revert back to the actual law.

Yep the real fight begins now - to undo the huge damage done by stonewall deliberately misrepresenting the law

My fear is, when this shit show of a government is finally undone, self-ID will become a talisman of proof that their replacement is NOT THEM.
Constant vigilance, as Moody would say.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Men can't acquire the protected characteristic of the female sex willy nilly, now

But that doesn't really matter now that literally everything apart from birth certificates is self-ID any way. This announcement is just to maintain the status quo. Ending things like selfID for passports, driving licenses, women's spaces etc required the government to actually do something.

The exemptions are already there. This just means the government need to strengthen them, highlight them, and give them the legitimacy they need.

And yes, of course, there was always this ridiculous situation, where you were in trouble if you needed to 'prove' someone's sex to exclude them.

Which is why public attitude was always key. And this is the beginning.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Men can't acquire the protected characteristic of the female sex willy nilly, now

But that doesn't really matter now that literally everything apart from birth certificates is self-ID any way. This announcement is just to maintain the status quo. Ending things like selfID for passports, driving licenses, women's spaces etc required the government to actually do something.

It was the prospect of self ID, used by lobby groups, that captured all these organisations. Once self ID is definitely off the table, then the hard work of digging out it’s consequences from all aspects of public policy can begin. Maintaining the status quo seemed like an impossible dream a couple of years ago; it gives us a foothold now to eradicate all the policies that have been pushed by the lobby groups. I can imagine that when pushed for an answer, even the passport office, DVLA, etc are going to find it difficult to justify changing sex markers without a GRC, and again, by bringing this issue out into the open, the general public are going to be asking why this happens. They won’t be able to stop us talking about it now, however hard they try, the cat is well and truly out of the bag.

Shows exactly why a huge amount of work is still needed, to undo Stonewall law, and revert back to the actual law.

Absolutely. That and a recognition of facts. If someone is female it should say so on their medical notes. We need to get rid of this ridiculous conflation of feelings and reality.

@DaisiesandButtercups

I also think that it should be considered completely fine to ask to see evidence of GRC when relevant, just as it is fine to ask for evidence of age, sex, pregnancy, disability etc when relevant.

Otherwise you still effectively have self ID.

Agree with this completely.

I feel hopeful about this for the first time in ages, the tide seems to be turning and JKR writing her opinion has really helpful - the awful response she has endured has really opened peoples eyes. Be kind my arse.

This is great news. But does it change anything for us in Scotland or Wales?