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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Dd told off for skirt being 5cm above her knee..too distracting.

149 replies

Knowhowufeel2 · 09/09/2020 20:29

My almost 16yo dd was pulled aside by the headteacher this morning as it was deemed her skirt is too short.

She was told that it's indecent and distracting for male students/staff and is against school rules despite it being their own brand skirt. It's just 5cm above her knee and she wasn't rolling it up or anything. They've said she must buy another within 48hrs despite the fact buying another (which will be exactly the same) won't change where it comes to on my dd as they're all 1 standard length.

I've been told to expect a phone call to make sure we comply and a meeting if I disagree.

I'm not happy that a lot of this skirt rule comes about because it's deemed distracting to the male gaze.

Why should my dd be responsible for that?

Also, I don't actually consider it particularly short (5cm above her knee as I measured) and I'm not happy to spend £30 on another skirt that will be exactly the same length as the one she already has.

My dd is bright and hard working...her skirt length has no bearing on that.

The school seems more concerned about uniform than the fact that several of their teachers are not up to the job....eg, yesterday her geography teacher admitted that she didn't understand what she was teaching them and found it boring!!

Any ideas on how to approach this or am I being over sensitive?

OP posts:
Whatwouldscullydo · 10/09/2020 11:08

We'd have been in big trouble for a skirt that short. Ours had to be just below the knee. It wasn't an issue though. Our parents were told when we joined the school that we had to agree to the uniform rules. It was a non issue, we all did

Did you miss the part that ahes wearing the school issue skirt... the one they have to have. That comes in one length.

AryaStarkWolf · 10/09/2020 11:15

@cantgetmyheadroundit

We had this at school when we were in the 6th form. We were told to be careful what we wore, to make sure it wasn't too revealing, because the male staff could be distracted.

That was in 1987. I thought it was fucking bad THEN.

How creepy and insulting to decent male teachers too
deydododatdodontdeydo · 10/09/2020 11:21

We had this issue in school 30 years ago.
However, I don't recall anyone saying it was distracting, it was just the rules.
The official school uniform was below the knee, it was only above the knee if it was modified, which many girls did. They were hauled in by the deputy head, who had a tape measure and used to measure the distance.
It sounds like an issue with the uniform itself, and the wording of the headteacher.

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 10/09/2020 11:34

I see nothing has changed since the 80s, when a boy wrote on my blouse on the last day of school (as was the custom) and I was made to sit alone for the rest of the day and think about why I had encouraged a boy to touch my breasts.

Angry
Z0rr0 · 10/09/2020 11:34

I hesitate to add to a thread that's already 5 pages long, but I did a big piece of research earlier this year for a major charity, looking at the many ways girls are disadvantaged in the education system and the policing of girls' bodies and clothing is a big issue, and is girls' main bugbear with school because the policing of hair and dress is so one-sided. Boys very rarely get policed in the same way if their trousers are too short or too tight.
I would definitely complain in a strongly worded email about how it is not the job of students to dress more conservatively because males can't respect the females in their presence or control themselves.
There has been a lot of coverage in the media in recent years criticising heads who take this view, slut shaming or fat shaming girls.
There has also been a fair amount written in recent years about how uniform is a very British obsession and there's no evidence to suggest that students in uniform behave or perform any better in school than children who aren't forced to wear it.
Finally I would add that a friend of mine who works in youth counselling takes a very dim view of this approach.
I quoted her in the research:
“The girls have routinely had the talk about rolling up skirts and have been told in doing so they look ‘sluttish’ and are asking for unwanted attention. I spoke to the school about the way they approach this as it is extremely shaming and giving both girls and boys the wrong impression about what clothes mean about a girl. As I work with young people that have been raped, I constantly see how they blame themselves/the clothes they wear, so this made me very angry that the school were enforcing this message. The school rang me and agreed that they should take a different approach so I really hope that they do now. But this is a message girls get in many secondary schools: you roll your skirt up and it makes you sluttish or wanting sexual attention. Schools need to be really careful about their narrative around girls’ clothes...and of course they don’t say it about any of the boys’ clothes.”
For more on this have a look at Plan International's report The State of Girls Rights in 2020. (That's not the research I worked on, it's just really interesting on this issue.)

Viviennemary · 10/09/2020 11:38

There have always been school rules about thd length of skirts. But the school was very foolish to talk about distracting males. Not your DDs problem. They need to say skirts must be no more than x inches above the knee.

Whatwouldscullydo · 10/09/2020 11:39

Again how does one do that when there's one skirt available...

Oblomov20 · 10/09/2020 11:42

I disagree. Schools have rules on skirt length. Why not just comply?

dementedpixie · 10/09/2020 11:43

How can you comply when the regulation skirt is in 1 length only?

custardbear · 10/09/2020 11:45

If my child's skirt was 5cm above the top of the knee I'd be complaining to the head and the school uniform company for sexualising the taller students

How long is the loser? My year 7 child is 5 feet 7 and has to wear the longest skirt which is 24cm, also comes in 20 and 22 cm

In all honesty I'd buy a similar looking skirt from elsewhere or get trousers - and make a harsh point to the head and governors that their uniform suppliers need to provide a skirt that doesn't affect your, or anyone else's child's education or reputation

HolyForkinShirt · 10/09/2020 11:45

I don't think they are wrong in asking her to comply with the school uniform skirt length. (Assuming skirt length is specified in their school uniform policy)

Its ridiculous that they said it distracting to the males. That's a pathetic argument from their side.

CharlieParley · 10/09/2020 11:46

@Oblomov20

I disagree. Schools have rules on skirt length. Why not just comply?
She did. As OP states, her DD is wearing the skirt as supplied by the school, unadulterated, to the precise length allowed.

How do you propose the OP should deal with her DD complying with the rules in full and still being shamed for how she looks by the head?

HavelockVetinari · 10/09/2020 11:56

@dementedpixie

How can you comply when the regulation skirt is in 1 length only?
I assume they're asking OP to chop out a section of her daughter's thighs so as to ensure the skirt fits correctly.
Viviennemary · 10/09/2020 11:57

If the child's skirt is the correct length in accordance with the rules then the school is in the wrong. OP should write a letter saying the skirt complies with the school rules and that she is far from happy about the comments made to her DD. Copy to governors.

SignOnTheWindow · 10/09/2020 12:00

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

If male teachers are distracted by seeing children's legs they probably shouldn't be teachers!
Quite!

OP, I would be into that school giving them hell for this. And probably be making my views very public, too. This sort of thing needs stamping on. Hard.

NearlyGranny · 10/09/2020 12:05

Rope in the chair of governors and the academy chain CEO if school is part of a chain.

SignOnTheWindow · 10/09/2020 12:05

@Knowhowufeel2

My dd did actually say to the teacher that maybe their time would be better spent educating the boys to 'control themselves', not expecting the girls to change their clothes to suit.
Good for her!
CorianderLord · 10/09/2020 12:22

Gross. Your daughters body should not distract staff Envy And boys are responsible for their own distraction.

Pelleas · 10/09/2020 12:25

Have you (or your daughter) said:

'This is the only brand of skirt allowed. It only comes in one length. What would you like me to do?'

EDSGFC · 10/09/2020 12:25

The school said it was distracting to staff, not that the male teachers are getting turned on.

There's a female teacher on here saying that she's had to speak to girls because of of it - it's not nice is it to see knickers on show because skirts are too short or boys walking around with trousers so low their bums are hanging out.

ApolloandDaphne · 10/09/2020 12:32

@Knowhowufeel2 I think I would gladly go to a meeting and ask them exactly what you should do given she is wearing the correct skirt and it is the right length. What did she wear this morning to school?

Lougle · 10/09/2020 15:46

It's bizarre that they only have one length. Our school suppliers have 18-24" lenghts available. Although they have certain sizes that don't have the longer lengths, a parent can buy the longer length skirt, then the supplier will have it altered to fit on the waist. Also, they've committed to run the longer length (26") if it is needed.

At DDs' school the skirts are required to be 'knee length'. I nearly bought a 24" and hemmed it, as DD2 needs 23" to the knee. I was so glad when I didn't, because so many girls have them so much higher than knee length.

RiftGibbon · 10/09/2020 16:03

Loving all the people saying "just comply with the rules". Except that she is. There is only one type of skirt, which is allowed to be 5cm above the knee.
The thing about rules is that they need to have some rationale. It's not good enough to say that 'thats the uniform, wear it.' The question should be 'what is the purpose of this rule?'
If female staff are wearing skirts more than 5cm above the knee then the rule is unfair.
It is not clear how OP's DD is able to comply with the rule as her height and build directly affect how the only type of available skirt hangs on her.

cupofdecaf · 10/09/2020 16:08

I'd ask if he found it distracting.
If not (because that would be wrong) then point out his criticism is directed at the wrong person it should be at the person leering at a child.
If he says yes then surely there's all sorts of people that should be involved if he's looking at a child in a sexual way as her teacher.

AryaStarkWolf · 10/09/2020 16:22

@cupofdecaf

I'd ask if he found it distracting. If not (because that would be wrong) then point out his criticism is directed at the wrong person it should be at the person leering at a child. If he says yes then surely there's all sorts of people that should be involved if he's looking at a child in a sexual way as her teacher.
He is a she!