Stonewall Lobby World Rugby

[SunsetBeetch]

Ffs I am so sick of this agenda-heavy lobby group and their war against women's rights!

(Note that they are controlling who can reply to them too.)

“We are asking rugby clubs at all levels of the game to stand with us against a ruling that is exclusionary and that will impact some of the most vulnerable people in the community”.

Join us and
@LgbtiqS
in calling
@WorldRugby
to #TackleTransphobia lgbtiqsportalliance.org.uk/uk-lgbtiq-sport

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1296801438211944455?s=20

I'm putting my faith in insurance companies being the back stop here. If World Rugby set standards that excludes male bodied players from women's rugby on safety grounds, then even if individual unions want to ignore the ruling, they're going to be in a difficult position to be actively ignoring that guidance. Similar to how referees have refused to rule on women's matches with TW players in the past. When liability becomes an issue, people are suddenly going to remember common sense safety standards.

I'm putting my faith in insurance companies being the back stop here

Yes, me too. They also have their own policies on women and fairness etc and in nz they’ve been forced before legally to withdraw from doing something ( playing South Africa during apartheid ) when someone challenged it in court. It may mean more court cases and more digging

MoltenLasagne

I’d like to think that you’re right, but isn’t it possible that insurance companies will be prevented from discriminating against transwomen in rugby just as they’ve been prevented from discriminating against male drivers? In which case the increase in insurance costs would be borne by women!

Would be interesting to hear from a lawyer.

I'm neither a lawyer nor in insurance but to my laywoman's mind there's a big difference between not being allowed to give women a better rate (reflecting a reduction in risk) and being forced to continue insuring a proven increase in risk.

I'm not so sure about insurance: would the insurers even be allowed to discriminate between clubs that allowed trans women to play and those that didn't? Would clubs even be allowed to disclose the fact that they had players who'd undergone male puberty?

Bear in mind that car insurers aren't permitted now to distinguish between male and female risks.

The world's gone mad.

I hope you're right.

Just to be clear....

When I said ‘I hope you’re right’ I was replying to Molten’s view that insurers would be allowed to charge higher rates to trans rugby players , not Wagner’s view that the world’s gone mad!

When the insurance market can’t differentiate premiums, their only option is to increase the cost for everyone.

The TRA argument seems to be ‘let’s just have no restrictions and see what happens’. How can insurers cover that cost?

Also given that the information from the conference exists, I wonder if a club could face criminal liability for negligence if a player is injured?

insuring a proven increase in risk.

Yes. They will not refuse to insure, well they may do if they can, but it’s more that they’ll increase costs to insure women across the board because of the increased risk. This could prevent unions and clubs including males in women’s category, but I’m now concerned that it will mean increased costs in women’s rugby and therefore this may affect the improvements they’ve been working on around fair pay, increased competitions in-line with men and better conditions and training. It could go either way.

I’d be interested in a legal perspective on how an insurer could refuse to insure. The twitter thread I just linked to before was a rugby lawyer involved in the consultation process.

I wonder if a club could face criminal liability for negligence if a player is injured?

I don’t know the details or what progress it’s made but I noted I think in 2018/2019 there were families in France taking the French union to court over either deaths of injuries of their kids? Someone might know some more detail on that as I might be misrepresenting what is happening but it was about risk and failure to protect players.

I’d be interested in a legal perspective on how an insurer could refuse to insure.

Wouldn't they just make the premium prohibitively expensive?

That’s what I thought, my concern is they’d pay the premiums and the women would lose out in payments and matches- they don’t all have the equivalent tournaments to men in each union at the mo.

But going back to the car example, would they be allowed to make the premiums for women's rugby more expensive?

Hmmm that’s a good question. I don’t know enough about the law or insurance but some insight would be great. I’m not on twitter to ask the rugby law expert

In massive shock to literally no one Canadian rugby says it will not adopt world rugby policy on trans players

Canada really does hate women doesn’t it

rugby.ca/en/news/2020/09/rugby-canada-provides-update-on-feedback-to-proposed-transgender-guidelines

Rugby Canada believes that all individuals deserve respectful and inclusive environments for participation that value the individuals’ gender identity and gender expression. We want to ensure that all participants have access to programming and facilities in which they feel comfortable and safe, and will continue to take all steps necessary to do so.

How is gender identity or expression relevant to playing a game of rugby?

They talk about feeling safe - what about actually being safe?

Kit19
oh wow! and they used documented lived experiences of Canadian rugby trans participants that were consulted as part of the feedback process. - any documented lived experiences of Canadian rugby female participants in there at all?????
Working together, we will continue to ensure that there is a place for everyone to play rugby in Canada - err, everyone except women I think.

Does it never occur to these people that everyone should be valued simply for being a human being? That gender is completely irrelevant to value?

documented lived experiences of Canadian rugby trans participants that were consulted as part of the feedback process

The way they trot out buzz words like 'lived experiences' is so infuriating.

They don't appear to have addressed any of the safety concerns.

Now now garden

You don’t want to be cluttering up your consultations with boring biological women & ruining your wokeness 😆

I suspect that female Canadian rugby players, like female Canadian prisoners and female Canadian rape survivors, are simply invisible.

Will be interesting to see how the next Canadian election goes... Trudeau has so far got embroiled in not one, but two blackface incidents, has sacked his indigenous female attorney general over her wanting due process and a proper investigation into his family's possible involvement in illegal property development shenanigans in Quebec, has taken holidays at the expense of rich foreign nationals, and now it turns out there's been a huge government grant to a charity which has given very lucrative public speaking contracts to members of Trudeau's family.

He has a minority government. I suspect there will be a lurch back to the right in the not too distant future in Canada (not that this is necessarily a good thing - the Harper government was a bunch of crazed anti-science, global warming denialists who put authoritarian gagging orders on all government scientists...)

So how does it work if they don’t adopt the policy but want to play in say, the women’s World Cup. Other world rugby policies around eligibility have to be followed by all unions so everyone plays by the same rules, such as the residency eligibility law.
If the Canadian Women’s Ruby team rock up to the World Cup in New Zealand next year with a full forward pack of biological males who identify as women, and all other forwards are females... how is that everyone playing by the same rules? I don’t see how this can work.

Me either Milly 🤷🏻‍♀️

My guess is that they’re hoping to put pressure on the other unions especially the Southern Hemisphere ones

If all the unions refuse to endorse it then world rugby are going to be in a very difficult position

soo tempted to write them an email with a few questions - an excellent point Milly - hopefully World Rugby will have the foresight to put a rule in to prevent trans women playing in any World Cup and if they do, then presumably Canada make themselves ineligible to enter?

Apart from taking on full liability for injuries to Women by allowing them to play when it is known to be significantly more dangerous.

Soo glad I don't live in Canada - i used to quite like that programme about the Canadian mounted policemen with a cute lead but I feel for the Canadians women.

I suspect it will take injuries & laws suits to force the hand of rugby Canada & any other country that wants to follow their lead. Which will be tragic for any women who is actually hurt whilst playing rugby against a MTF transsexual.