Page 2 | Stonewall Lobby World Rugby

SunsetBeetch · 2020-08-23T10:59:41+00:00

Ffs I am so sick of this agenda-heavy lobby group and their war against women's rights! (Note that they are controlling who can reply to them too.) “We are asking rugby clubs at all levels of the game to stand with us against a ruling that is exclusionary and that will impact some of the most vulnerable people in the community”. Join us and *@LgbtiqS* in calling *@WorldRugby* to #TackleTransphobia [[https://lgbtiqsportalliance.org.uk/uk-lgbtiq-sport]] [[https://twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1296801438211944455?s=20]]

Aesopfable · 23/08/2020 12:39

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Winesalot · 23/08/2020 12:39

On the other hand despite them locking down comments, stonewall’s tweet has been ratioed by retweets. Overwhelmingly to the negative.

The discussion really is around ‘allowing some of the most vulnerable’ people play vs the now documented danger to the female players. The twitter convos I have watched over the past month are bonkers in the complete disregard for women’s safety vs validation. It has caused many rugby fans to start seeing the ideological basis that has indoctrinated ‘be kind’ to such a degree.

And the blind faith of those proclaiming that inclusivity is more important. To the point where there are those who believe that all women’s sports be abolished and only open sports be allowed. Because a) some women have biological advantages over other women so therefore it was never fair. B) people like Serena Williams should have to play men because women should just try harder to beat males. Being the best female is nothing. c) what about the people with DSDs and d) tw have always been women and does anyone saying that they aren’t exclude women choosing not to have children or that have fertility issues in their definition of women. And it goes on...

Really it makes my head hurt the lack of truthful discussion that refers to the facts.

ArabellaScott · 23/08/2020 12:40

the public are not in favour and Stonewall decide that's where they want to park their tanks.

A thought - I wonder if this is the tactic that led to attempts to put transwomen in women's prisons? Tackle the least popular, most outrageous angles first, shift the window of what is considered rational, then it seems almost okay to allow transwomen to play, say, women's badminton. Even though it would still be massively unfair.

InvisibleDragon · 23/08/2020 12:42

Are there any mixes sex rugby teams?

Professionally, no. And not for contact rugby.

I've played adults Tag Rugby (pull a velcro tail off instead of a physical tackle) and games can be mixed. There are strict limits about the gender/sex ratio, and differences in scoring between male and female players to keep it fair and to allow women to participate fully in the game (otherwise the guys would basically just pass the ball between each other).

Even then, it can be quite intimidating to play on a mixed team. It's a foul for an attacking player to run into a defender. But I've been completely wiped out because I stood my ground defending and a guy, who assumed I'd jump out of the way, ran straight into me at full speed.

thehumanformerlyknownasfemale · 23/08/2020 12:45

@Sexnotgender

Trans people don't need to be excluded from sports, just sports where they're a physical danger to other weaker players.

I’m sorry not just where they are a physical danger. Women’s sport is women’s sport. No room for males at all. No physical danger in running just a stonking physiological advantage.

Yes, sorry sex, I completely agree, I had just rugby on the brain there, my bad.

I saw a video on Twitter a few days ago of a trans woman running with women-the speed of the TW was unreal compared to the women runners.

It's just not fair on the women that dedicate their time to training and all the work they put in when they don't have a fair shot at winning.

AnnaMagnani · 23/08/2020 12:48

I played touch rugby at school, girls only. I was the biggest girl and despite being v unathletic I broke another girl's hand and another girl had concussion.

I don't think World Rugby will be changing their minds on this.

Winesalot · 23/08/2020 12:50

It will be interesting as I believe Australia is due to provide feedback by 31st August about what their position is.

Sexnotgender · 23/08/2020 12:52

A thought - I wonder if this is the tactic that led to attempts to put transwomen in women's prisons? Tackle the least popular, most outrageous angles first, shift the window of what is considered rational, then it seems almost okay to allow transwomen to play, say, women's badminton. Even though it would still be massively unfair.

Totally agree. The danger here is we focus on something like rugby where it’s obviously LUDICROUS for males to play against females. However we run the risk of focusing on the potential for physical injury. This then leaves it open for them pushing themselves into sports like running, cycling, tennis etc. where they don’t pose a physical risk but it’s still utterly bullshit to include them.

Winesalot · 23/08/2020 12:55

I don't think World Rugby will be changing their minds on this.

I don’t feel as confident. I look at the lack of Liz Truss’ statement as being a sign of reconsidering. There feels like the fragility of this community is considered higher priority every time lately.

Madvixen · 23/08/2020 13:08

What I found most interesting about the way Stonewall posted this is that they haven't posted it on their Facebook page. To me, this is a clear sign that they know the majority of people would not be in favour and they are only appealing to their echo chamber rather than opening up widespread discussion which may impact on their finances

ArabellaScott · 23/08/2020 13:12

Yep, Sex, we need to argue on the basis of fairness - on the basis that males have inbuilt advantages - testosterone puberty, etc. It's not 'just' about physical injury risk.

highame · 23/08/2020 13:14

This then leaves it open for them pushing themselves into sports like running, cycling, tennis etc. where they don’t pose a physical risk but it’s still utterly bullshit to include them.

Except, the science will have been used to keep rugby clean and therefore will carry over to other sports.

I still can't help thinking this is all a non-starter. Public opinion is very against due to the unfairness. Although sport might be tempted to rush ahead and be inclusive it wouldn't take long for a backlash. Sport could be very damaged.

highame · 23/08/2020 13:15

Sports bodies might be daft, but their not that daft (I don't think)

Sexnotgender · 23/08/2020 13:16

I still can't help thinking this is all a non-starter. Public opinion is very against due to the unfairness. Although sport might be tempted to rush ahead and be inclusive it wouldn't take long for a backlash. Sport could be very damaged.

But they’re already being included?! I can think of half a dozen TW off the top of my head who are already competing in women’s sports.

Original poster

SunsetBeetch · 23/08/2020 13:18

Oh I found a tweet where they left the comments open - oops!

"We’re proud to work with
@IGRugby
to call on
@WorldRugby
to protect trans people’s #RightToPlay. Sport should start from a place of inclusion and governing bodies need to hear more from trans athletes about their experiences. #RugbyForAll "

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1296407472022810624?s=20

"We at IGR Rugby reject this proposal, and stand with our Trans & Non-Binary players in solidarity to protect their #RightToPlay and call on
@WorldRugby
to do the same! #TackleTransphobia #RugbyForAll #IGRugby #WorldRugby"

twitter.com/IGRugby/status/1296111294962184192?s=20

OP posts:

littlbrowndog · 23/08/2020 13:24

Jeez how did we get to such a time where women are having to defend themselves from not wanting to play rugby with men

Roswellconspiracy · 23/08/2020 13:27

But they’re already being included?! I can think of half a dozen TW off the top of my head who are already competing in women’s sports

One of which quit the team because the women refused to shower and change with them. One also admitted in an interview that it was possible there were still advantages. That person also wrote what is apparently a scientific analysis of how theres no advantage . Tell me again that they really just want to play sports...

Sexnotgender · 23/08/2020 13:29

@littlbrowndog

Jeez how did we get to such a time where women are having to defend themselves from not wanting to play rugby with men

Fucking tell me about it. Gives me the bloody rage. And we’re hateful bigots for questioning the mighty peen.

OvaHere · 23/08/2020 13:29

@ArabellaScott

the public are not in favour and Stonewall decide that's where they want to park their tanks.

A thought - I wonder if this is the tactic that led to attempts to put transwomen in women's prisons? Tackle the least popular, most outrageous angles first, shift the window of what is considered rational, then it seems almost okay to allow transwomen to play, say, women's badminton. Even though it would still be massively unfair.

They've been quite open about why they targeted prisons first. It's because they contain the demographic of women least able to to protest and who already have very few rights. Add to that the general public not being too fussed about anyone in prison and it was the perfect place to start.

littlbrowndog · 23/08/2020 13:33

Yeah ova. Just that really.

I never thought this sort of shite would be really happening

And look it’s scotland.

Ffs

What is wrong. With these people that they don’t care about women

highame · 23/08/2020 13:34

I know there are some MTF trans people playing women's sports but we have had covid and lots of people losing jobs and colleges etc closed, restricted sport on TV. This has had an impact on what is seen. Parents are not seeing their daughters being denied places because of what's going on.

There are a lot of men out there who dislike this as much as we do. I do have a little faith, though I'm not certain. I just keep coming back to public opinion.

thehumanformerlyknownasfemale · 23/08/2020 13:38

Sport should start from a place of inclusion

Idiots.

Should disabled athletes be included with able bodied athletes then? Not fair to exclude them on the basis of being disabled, is it? Being as unfair advantages don't seem to mean shit.

They sound like toddlers throwing a tantrum because they've been told no. If I wasn't so worried, I'd be laughing at their ridiculousness.

Roswellconspiracy · 23/08/2020 13:41

Parents are not seeing their daughters being denied places because of what's going on

In conneticut its costing scholarships and opportunities to compete.

Its cost many women a place on the podium

Student133 · 23/08/2020 13:43

I've been involved in rugby my entire life, and though some higher ups at the RFU may pay lip service to this, I can assure you, the odds of any local clubs getting behind this is just tiny. Aside from the rights or wrongs, most clubs are run by blazer wearing blokes in their 60s, who are like harry Enfield sketch material, they wont even know what a 'trans' is, let alone let any women's teams be threatened by mtf players, its just culturally alien to 99% of the folks who are involved in rugby.

Kit19 · 23/08/2020 13:45

I thought the new stonewall ceo said that they were no longer going to try and persuade people they had to go along with their beliefs?

Seems very strange to say that and then die on this hill - it’s the one most likely to have the general public going ‘dont be fucking ridiculous’

The sport England trans review is going to be increasingly important. I believe it’s being done by gendered intelligence so of course will be completely impartial 🙄