Joe Biden's plans for LGBT+

[SunsetBeetch]

Whilst there are lots of good thing in here (the reversing of the ban on trans people in the military, for example), there is also this:

"Guaranteeing transgender students have access to facilities based on their gender identity. On his first day in office, Biden will reinstate the Obama-Biden guidance revoked by the Trump-Pence Administration, which will restore transgender students’ access to sports, bathrooms, and locker rooms in accordance with their gender identity. He will direct his Department of Education to vigorously enforce and investigate violations of transgender students’ civil rights."

How he squares this with his pledges regarding women's rights, I do not know. I could scream!

joebiden.com/lgbtq-policy/

I'm no fan of Trump, but I hope he does pounce on this. It's an easy win, and he kind of deserves it? The left deserve to look stupid to supporting this misogynistic shit. The left should have to stand there and clearly state why people with the Y chromosome should be allowed into women's safe spaces.

I'm no fan of Trump, but I hope he does pounce on this. It's an easy win, and he kind of deserves it?

If Trump pounces on this his only motivation would be to 'own the libs', and it would do a huge amount of harm to feminists who simply want to protect women's rights.

Lacking the competence to create effective legislation, or any understanding of the issue, he simply lacks the capacity to effectively protect women's rights. He can only do harm.

@TBHno

I'm no fan of Trump, but I hope he does pounce on this. It's an easy win, and he kind of deserves it? The left deserve to look stupid to supporting this misogynistic shit. The left should have to stand there and clearly state why people with the Y chromosome should be allowed into women's safe spaces.

Here's hoping it gets a lot of airtime, plays really, really badly and the Dems have to backtrack to sanity.

If the Democrats are to win do they not need to win over people who voted for Trump last time, while also persuading non voters and indeed their own supporters, to go out and vote?
Because, if that's the case, then can I suggest they need to start saying positive things about their own candidate?
All I can see from Democrat supporters on both the Presidential threads is 'Vote for Biden - he's not Trump'.
How is ever going to be a winning strategy?

Sorry I managed to miss Freespeecher's post, otherwise I'd have just said 'what she said'.

I think American voters have a very difficult choice to make, just like last time. It's not good, is it?

States and cities are responsible for their own policing. It is not a federal matter.

All I can see from Democrat supporters on both the Presidential threads is 'Vote for Biden - he's not Trump'. How is ever going to be a winning strategy?

It’s all they have so ... they’re running with it. (As it happens, I don’t plan on voting from abroad unless rioters start burning down cities in my home state and making me angry ...)

But why is it all they have? That's what I don't understand. They've had 4 years to work it out.

@RadicalFern

States and cities are responsible for their own policing. It is not a federal matter.

But that's kind of the point; the current problems in regards to law and order are a gift for Trump, as they are occurring primarily in cities and states governed by the Democrats. Trump can point at, say, Portland, and claim that this is the natural consequence of electing Democrats, whilst absolving himself of any responsibility, on the basis that law enforcement is a matter for the states.

@Floisme

But why is it all they have? That's what I don't understand. They've had 4 years to work it out.

Maybe this comes down to, what would it mean to begin to think about doing something differently? Biden is effectively the same product as HRC, or Obama. Are they going to abandon that - I tend to think not, it's too much invested in certain interests.

I'm not even sure that a real alternate exists in any numbers in the US. It's not like the country really has a robust longstanding labour movement history like the UK, nor do they have a tradition of socialist conservatism to speak of.

The worst thing I think is the long term outcome.

If Trump wins, that's 4 years more of a leadership vacuum and further deterioration of the state. Bad.

If Biden wins, 4 years of Reaganism a la Clinton and Obama. And then there will be all the more appetite or something to stand against that, and all the more radicalisation of the population.

And maybe the next Trump won't be a buffoon, but someone smart, with a real political agenda.

That's disheartening Goosefoot I don't pretend to know US politics well but, in the UK, I would say that, if you're up against an incumbent or an existing social order, then you've a much better chance if you have a positive, vigorous message:

'Take back control' - I'm still a remainer but that was a brilliant campaign.
Cameron posed with huskies and cycled to work (followed by a photographer I assume but effective).
Blair - 'Things can only get better'. The Tories tried to portray him with devil eyes. Everyone laughed.
Thatcher in 1979 did use a 'Labour isn't working' - negative message but balanced it with 'It's time for a change'.

I think negativity and scare tactics can work if you're already in power but I don't think they're enough , when you need votes from people who didn't vote for you before, which is why - and I repeat I'm not American - I find the Democrat reliance on 'he might be an idiot but at least he's not Trump' line thoroughly depressing.

There have been some interesting discussions on Pod Save America about the campaign choices. The hosts all worked in the Obama White House so not going to pretend they aren't Democrats with their own take on things, but if you want to hear some less negative thoughts about why choices were made it's there. They questioned Biden's choice to run on character and stability, but there was a primary with a lot of other candidates - much more real choice than in 2016 -and that's what the electorate went for. Overwhelmingly. Most of my friends were Elizabeth Warren supporters but are happy to support Biden now.

crooked.com/podcast-series/pod-save-america/

I know someone who worked in the Obama White House in a lowly capacity but spoke very highly of the team there. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a smart, highly competent team behind Biden. BUT if the Democrats can't get the Senate, then it's going to be rocky like it was for Obama.

I know it's tempting just to sink into negativity because the leadership in the UK and US has been so poor, but it's worthwhile trying to be hopeful.

@Floisme

That's disheartening Goosefoot I don't pretend to know US politics well but, in the UK, I would say that, if you're up against an incumbent or an existing social order, then you've a much better chance if you have a positive, vigorous message:

'Take back control' - I'm still a remainer but that was a brilliant campaign.
Cameron posed with huskies and cycled to work (followed by a photographer I assume but effective).
Blair - 'Things can only get better'. The Tories tried to portray him with devil eyes. Everyone laughed.
Thatcher in 1979 did use a 'Labour isn't working' - negative message but balanced it with 'It's time for a change'.

I think negativity and scare tactics can work if you're already in power but I don't think they're enough , when you need votes from people who didn't vote for you before, which is why - and I repeat I'm not American - I find the Democrat reliance on 'he might be an idiot but at least he's not Trump' line thoroughly depressing.

People want to know what you stand for, what direction you are going to take them in.

Standing for the status quo or business as usual in the US is not a strong message, because so many people are so alienated from that already.

It was interesting when Obama was running, one of the criticisms the Republican campaign harped on about was his lack of experience. Which completely backfires, someone who was not immersed and beholden to the political machine was what people liked about him. In bringing it up constantly it was a complete own-goal.

It's also what attracted many people to Trump, and the Clinton campaign fell into the exact same trap, talking again and again about how immersed she was in a government many people have mainly negative feelings for, which they see as out to get them or uncaring. They pushed this Democrats are kind business, caring for people, antiracism is good, when BC oversaw the dismantling of what passed for a social welfare system and imprisoned more black men than ever.

People aren't as stupid as they seem to think, if you keep telling them you are good, and you screw them over, they stop believing you. You can promise change like Obama, and then you are the same, well those promises no longer hold much water.

They've destroyed their own credibility big time. Biden is a system guy, not an outsider, they will struggle to convince people he will change anything. The Democrats have no one but themselves to blame for their troubles and ultimately they bear as much responsibility as the Tea Party types and the MAGA types for what is likely to be a failed state within the next 100 years.

Yes plus it's human nature. You!re trying to win over people who either didn't vote or who voted against you last time. How iis repeatedly telling them, 'You did a stupid / wrong thing and, if you don't put it right, civilisation will come to an end and it'll all be your fault' ever going to work?

It's such a stupid tactic. Some Labour voters tried it on here in December and look how that ended. I can't believe I'm seeing it again.

And yes to this:
It's also what attracted many people to Trump, and the Clinton campaign fell into the exact same trap, talking again and again about how immersed she was in a government many people have mainly negative feelings for,
From where I was sitting, the fact that Trump was a maverick and an outsider even in his own party, seemed to be a big part of his appeal. And somehow, after a term in office he seems to have managed to hang on to that 'no-one likes me' image. Trying to impeach him - which, from what I could see, was never going to succeed - played right into his hands.

Yup.

But I do consistently wonder, how do the people working for the Democrats not get it? It's like a kind of blindness. And the same for the LP.

They both made the mistake of thinking that social media is equal to real life. When 10% of Tweeters make 80% of Tweets it doesn't translate to the ballot box. Also as someone else said telling potential voters that they "are stupid/don't know what they're voting for" etc is not exactly the way to get them to vote for you. Most people will keep quiet and answer at the Ballot Box.

www.adweek.com/digital/the-most-active-10-of-twitter-users-are-responsible-for-80-of-tweets-overall/amp/
www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/04/24/sizing-up-twitter-users/

I would be interested to know if America has a ‘shy Trump voter’ phenomenon in the same way as we have had shy Tories who don’t admit their true voting intention even to pollsters.

I think there's also the apathy phenomenon, where voters will tell a pollster they support Labour (or whoever) and genuinely mean it, but who, when push comes to shove, aren't motivated enough to turn out and vote. From what I could gather, that's partly what did for Clinton.
It's why I think the incumbent always has the advantage and why you need a positive, hopeful message, and not just fear and shaming to get them out.

Yes I worry that if Biden gets in, the Democrats will just become complacent and think the world’s back to normal now and it will cause worse trouble further down the line.

What do you think the impact of Covid will be?

@TBHno

Isn't Biden the clown who said that black people weren't black unless they voted for him?

He absolutely is.

He also said:

"By the way, what you all know but most people don't know, unlike the African American community with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things. You go to Florida, you find a very different attitude about immigration in certain places than you do when you're in Arizona. So it's a very different, a very diverse community,"

Also remember that Clinton won the popular vote. Polls aren't everything.