Kamala Harris

[Xanthangum]

... has been selected as Joe Biden's running mate.

Important for all sorts of reasons I feel

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1293281838337871875?s=20

Sorry Annasgirl I missed your post

I choose to laugh about it because otherwise it's just too depressing for words.

I sometimes wonder if I'll see another left-ish government elected in my lifetime.

@Floisme

You must have done the advanced training then wejustdisagree? Mine was watching The Man from UNCLE. Illya Kuryakin was my mentor.

Original TV version, I hope...

There is no other version.
Illya was the first man I ever loved.

Though in all seriousness, I can't see the "Biden/Harris are to the US what Corbyn/McDonnell were to the UK" analogy at all.

Both have flaws, sure.

But on the one hand you have a narcissistic liar in the pocket of Putin, who is probably the only leader of a democratic nation to be handling Covid even worse than our government. On the other hand you have what, to me, look like a couple of mainstream democrats, albeit ones who have bought the TWAW schtick.

But if I were an American woman I would be thinking "my GC beliefs versus... contraception no longer provided by my company health scheme, roll-back of Roe v Wade as soon as RBG pops her clogs, economy so seriously tanked I'm probably going to lose my job..." I'd hold my nose and vote Democrat, while praying that I never needed a women-only homeless shelter and never ended up on a locked psych ward. Because the sheer number of women Republican policies will damage in a very direct and immediate way is greater than the number likely to be damaged by the Democrats.

From this side of the pond, I'm just praying we get rid of him because I think Biden is less likely to press the big red button after getting into a twitter flame war with someone (or simply because he mistook it for a coaster and put his cofeve cup on it).

@Floisme

There is no other version. Illya was the first man I ever loved.

I think we'll have to start a 60s Ilya fan club! Couldn't understand as an impressionable young teen why Robert Vaughan always got the girl?

It was because Illya was waiting for me.

Sadly that sounds a bit creepy in 2020. But our love was pure.

Reel to reel tape recorders were wonderful things

Dianas
my GC beliefs versus... contraception no longer provided by my company health scheme, roll-back of Roe v Wade as soon as RBG pops her clogs, economy so seriously tanked I'm probably going to lose my job..
THIS
If Trump wins and RBG dies, Roe v Wade is toast

TWAW absolutely pales into insignificance against the day to day right to health of millions of women

I'm afraid I must go, Listening. I have an election in Belize to work on.

Floisme
Ashcroft has run out of money though

Floisme - so witty.

Not clear what your 'solutions' are. Biden and Harris have been chosen, and aren't about to be unchosen, no matter what a MN user of 7 years' standing, as you tell us, no less, may think on the matter.

So I'm not clear what purpose is served by griping over things you dislike about Biden. Or Harris. On this and other threads.

If you have a magic solution to win over Trump voters, you're keeping it very well hidden.

I don't see any need to lie here and pretend that Trump supporters aren't racist or are sane.

This kind of comment is why Trump got elected.

People voted for Trump because they were angry that elitists in both parties sneering at them. A minority of these people are racist. About as many are “insane” as on the far left.

@FWRLurker

I don't see any need to lie here and pretend that Trump supporters aren't racist or are sane.

This kind of comment is why Trump got elected.

People voted for Trump because they were angry that elitists in both parties sneering at them. A minority of these people are racist. About as many are “insane” as on the far left.

I think this is a very important thing to remember. A lot of voters in the crucial swing states last time round (Michigan for instance) were in despair over the decline of traditional industries and could see their jobs and economic security vanishing in a country with precious little by way of social security safety net. They'd gone through 8 years of Obama, and didn't see the Democrats doing anything about this (in fact, overall the economy did reasonably well under Obama, but the key thing is these people weren't seeing it). They looked at Clinton and thought "more of the same". They looked at Trump and saw "MAGA" and thought "maybe he will, maybe he won't but at least there's a chance..."

Now they may have been naive and misinformed to believe any of Trump's promises (in fact, they were both). But they weren't necessarily racist or insane - some of them were just ordinary people worried about their livelihoods. Of course a chunk of Trump's core voter base are racist and nuts. But not all of them.

And it's the ordinary people in the rust belt that Biden and Harris have to persuade. They don't care about TWAW and Chapter IX in sports scholarship allocation. They don't care about who's going to be on the supreme court in 4 years time. They mainly care about whether they're still going to have a pay-cheque 6 months from now.

People voted for Trump because they were angry that elitists in both parties sneering at them. A minority of these people are racist.

That might have been a reasonable argument in 2016.

It isn't so reasonable in 2020.

They mainly care about whether they're still going to have a pay-cheque 6 months from now.
Check

But yes
analytical voters and pundits need to have Maslow in their heads every inch of the way
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Check

I knew I'd get picked up on that as soon as I typed it.

But yes, you say to mah toe and I say to may toe!

To be fair when Trump won Obama said:

I think there is a sobering process when you walk into the Oval Office. And I haven’t shared previously private conversations I've had with the President-elect. I will say that they have been cordial and, in some cases, have involved me making some pretty specific suggestions about how to ensure that regardless of our obvious deep disagreements about policy, maybe I can transmit some thoughts about maintaining the effectiveness, integrity, cohesion of the office, of various democratic institutions. And he has listened.

But that was before Charlottesville and suggesting injecting bleach and supporting Putin over the FBI and all the rest.

The role race will play this time round is an interesting one, and I don't think it's just "racists will vote for Trump." We'll see the continuation of algorithms allowing for incredibly targeted advertising, plus the fact that many people now get their slant on the news from what their google feed suggests for them.

I was talking to a friend the other day about this - I could see some re-vamped Cambridge Analytica type simultaneously running stuff targeted at racist voters pushing "Harris supports BLM and defund the police" with a view to getting them fired up and voting, and also running stuff targetted at black voters pushing "look what Harris did while she was a prosecutor - she's on the side of the establishment and the police..." with a view to getting them pissed off enough that they stay home or vote 3rd party.

There's all sorts of factors will come into play - getting your own voters out, persuading other voters to stay home or waste their votes, right through to Trump's not-so-thinly veiled threats of voter suppression. The next few months are going to get very, very nasty indeed.

*That might have been a reasonable argument in 2016.

It isn't so reasonable in 2020*

Elites ARE still sneering at white lower income / working class rust belters though. More so than ever.

Some of these people might not vote at all (if they have even heard about The more egregious things Trump has been up to) but I am not sure they are going to vote for Biden either.

My understanding is that backlash Against elite intellectual/professional class from the working classes is basically what happened with Brexit also?

@Floisme

There is no other version. Illya was the first man I ever loved.

Same here.

FWRLurker

"This kind of comment is why Trump got elected."

Not when made on MN it wasn't.

I very much doubt many swing voters in the US are reading my comments on an obscure bit of a UK parenting website and basing their voting decisions on them!

I don't feel the need to mince my words. Trump doesn't so much flirt with racism as full-on snog it. There are no Americans left who don't know that he is a full-blown racist and white supremacist. If they choose to vote for him anyway, then they are as bad and I have no intention of mincing my words.

Voting for Biden/Harris is the ONLY OPTION for any American who cares about democracy, let alone women's rights.

Any further discussion about niceties is a luxury we can't afford at this moment.

xy I agree with your upshot 100%. Which is why it is so important we understand WHY trump got elected in the first place.

We can’t do politics as usual. We can’t assume anything in terms of who will vote for the Dems.

We have to push the Biden/Harris ticket to be compassionate and understanding of the plight of The highly skeptical working class In the USA. Btw not just white working class - a lot of Hispanics voted for Trump too.

@ListeningQuietly

Goosefoot If you think Biden is the problem, out of interest (and as FireUnder gave really interesting answers up thread) Who would be your picks for Pres VP Sec of State (any party) ?

I think it's an irrelevant question, because no one who was going to offer a real alternative political program would never be nominated. Even if someone like Sanders had won, it's questionable how much he's have accomplished given the institutional resistance he'd have met.

What would cause either party to seriously rethink their commitment to Wall Street at all costs, is the question. I'm not sure I think anything will, which isn't very heartening.