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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kamala Harris

292 replies

Xanthangum · 11/08/2020 21:48

... has been selected as Joe Biden's running mate.

Important for all sorts of reasons I feel

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1293281838337871875?s=20

OP posts:
Iminthewrongstory · 21/08/2020 10:00

I know some folks who voted 3rd party last time around with the expectation that Hillary would get in anyway, but they could snipe on the sidelines, saying, 'Well, we didn't vote for her.' If they are voting third party this time around, they are keeping quiet about it. But, of course, the whole idea of the vote is that it's your choice - and the consequences of your vote remain with you. (I could go on about why a vote for, say, libertarians who don't believe in government intervention during a pandemic might not be a great choice, but everyone has their own priorities.)

Obama once used the analogy of being president to being the captain of a huge ocean liner. You can't do sudden turns, it's just a a gradual shift one way or another. And I believed him. Until I realised that the analogy doesn't work if the captain doesn't care about hitting icebergs and sinking the ship and then hording all the lifeboats for himself.

Iminthewrongstory · 21/08/2020 10:13

So the point of my story above is vote for someone who doesn't want to hit icebergs :-)

BTW, I'd missed Gloria Steinem's reaction to the selection of Kamala:thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/511827-gloria-steinem-selection-of-kamala-harris-recognizes-that-black

highame · 21/08/2020 10:17

Merry the tweets, yes of course, the bloody tweets. My issue is the hardening divisions and I was, in some way, trying to balance things out.

The hard left do want anarchy because the break down and re-building of society in a woke image is the driving force. So I feel very edgy when looking from the outside at the US because there's nothing to say it wont happen here. Bit of rubbish - I'll get my coat Grin

wejustdisagree · 21/08/2020 10:44

He has already said that he is not leaving in 2024. He has already shown you what he is prepared to do to hold power.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/what-if-he-wont-go/606259/

Because the president immediately and automatically loses his constitutional authority upon expiration of his term or after removal through impeachment, he would lack the power to direct the U.S. Secret Service or other federal agents to protect him. He would likewise lose his power, as the commander in chief of the armed forces, to order a military response to defend him. In fact, the newly minted president would possess those presidential powers. If necessary, the successor could direct federal agents to forcibly remove Trump from the White House. Now a private citizen, Trump would no longer be immune from criminal prosecution, and could be arrested and charged with trespassing in the White House.

startrek90 · 21/08/2020 11:57

Do you really think he or his sycophants will follow the constitution? They haven't so far and they have been laying the groundwork for this for years.

Also there is a huge amount of time between November 2020 and January 2021. You really think he or his supporters will not turn to violence and murder? You think he won't encourage it? This is a man who stood up not 2 days ago and agreed with the Q anon conspiracy that said he was chosen to save the world from Satan worshipping cannabalistic pedophiles. This is man who endorses terrorist organisations and openly declared himself as the chosen one.

You think a small matter of the constitution is going to change anything? The same constitution that protects the postal service, bans foreign interference in elections and stops presidents from soliciting gifts from foreign governments?

You seriously think that the republicans are going to follow the constitution at all and hold him to account? The same republicans that announced 2 days ago that Donald Trump DID collude with Russia to steal the 2016 election after acquitting him in January without hearing any witnesses? The same republicans who said he learnt his lesson and then stood silently whilst Trump openly asked China for help is this election right after the trial?

Really? Make no mistake if Biden wins in November he or his son will be killed.

wejustdisagree · 21/08/2020 12:12

I think you're being hyperbolic. There is absolutely no way, if he isn't re-elected, that he will be allowed to stay in the white house.

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 13:03

He has already said that he is not leaving in 2024. He has already shown you what he is prepared to do to hold power.

He isn't the healthiest person. He might not live till 2024.

However, he and his supporters in the Republican Party can pass legislation to further restrict voting rights.

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 13:59

Anybody who thinks that the GOP will stand by Trump if Biden wins
needs to give their heads a wobble.

Ditto anybody who thinks that US forces and civil servants who pledge allegiance to the flag rather than the president will stand by a former president

If they kill Biden between November and January then Harris gets sworn in
I can live with that Grin

Goosefoot · 21/08/2020 14:15

Even granted that Trump might be a problem, it's not like voting for Biden is really going to improve things. You will have one or two terms of non-incompetant governance, but it is also going to be the same as what the government has been doing, under Republicans and Democrats, since the early 80s.

That's the same model that has alienated increasing sections of the population, increased the precariat, forgotten the working classes, and increased the wealth gap. And, notably, increasingly driven people to vote for extremists, to accept that drastic action is necessary, and drive anti-government sentiment generally.

So what will be the outcome of that?

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 14:21

If the incoming administration pledged to deal with

  • gerrymandering
  • voter registration suppression
  • transparency and modern regulation of election funding and advertising
  • requested that all states allow split vote electoral college
then politicians who are willing to work together are more likely to get elected which would reduce the temperature

There is absolutely no way Trump would do that
even with Bannon in custody

there is a chance that Biden's team might move towards it

KonTikki · 21/08/2020 14:21

Star trek
Are you big on conspiracy theories ??

The US constitution was written specifically to ensure the timely and orderly handover of Presidential power from the out going to the incoming President.

Trump can stamp his feet, cry foul, throw his teddy in the corner ..... but on losing the election he becomes an ex-president and loses all presidential authority.

If you have a spare afternoon read the US constitution. It's all in there.

FireUnderTheHand · 21/08/2020 16:49

@KonTikki

Star trek Are you big on conspiracy theories ??

The US constitution was written specifically to ensure the timely and orderly handover of Presidential power from the out going to the incoming President.

Trump can stamp his feet, cry foul, throw his teddy in the corner ..... but on losing the election he becomes an ex-president and loses all presidential authority.

If you have a spare afternoon read the US constitution. It's all in there.

^This
merrymouse · 21/08/2020 16:55

That's the same model that has alienated increasing sections of the population, increased the precariat, forgotten the working classes, and increased the wealth gap. And, notably, increasingly driven people to vote for extremists, to accept that drastic action is necessary, and drive anti-government sentiment generally.

So what will be the outcome of that?

It's the difference between living in a flawed democracy where people are still free to post rubbish on a site like Mumsnet, and living in a dictatorship where you are always worried about the knock at the door.

Trump is the first step to that kind of dictatorship, because he is not guided by any moral principles, and actively wants to destroy institutions that protect democracy like an independent judiciary and a free press. (I am not talking about the Supreme Court here - I might not like his appointments, but they are qualified and would have been appointed by another republican president - I am more talking about his pardon for Roger Stone and his undermining of the judiciary).

The only thing protecting the US (and the rest of the world) from Trump's worse impulses is his incompetence and laziness, but he can pave the way for a want to be autocrat with drive and intelligence.

No government will ever be the magic bullet that magically protects its population from corrupt dictators forever. All we can do is hope that the majority of people recognise when it is necessary to course correct.

merrymouse · 21/08/2020 17:01

If you have a spare afternoon read the US constitution. It's all in there.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Constitution

People thought this was a useful document once.

NearlyGranny · 21/08/2020 17:16

merrymouse is right. Democracy has been filched piecemeal before from under the noses of people who thought a constitution or other document would somehow guarantee its continuance.

By the time you realise, it's already too late. Eternal vigilance etc.

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 17:18

Nearly
Which is why voters need to make a stand in 2020 to make sure that the rot does not set in further over the next 4 years.

startrek90 · 21/08/2020 18:00

@KonTikki

No I am not a believer in conspiracy theories but your president is. Hence when a reporter actually ASKED him about Qanon (a designated terrorist organisation, designated by the trump appointed FBI chief) 2 days ago in a press briefing he did not distance or refute it.

This man trades in conspiracy theories and white supremacy.

Also nice use of the word hysterical, kind of revealing.

It's is a slow slide into autocracy. The trump administration has spent the last 4 years undermining democratic institutions. He is already undermining the legitimacy of the 2020 election. He stated at a recent campaign speech that if he loses that means the election was rigged.

Why are you so invested in defending this man?

A constitution is a piece of paper that only has value as long as all the parties choose to value it.

Trump does not value the constitution. He does not respect norms and neither do his supporters. Supporters who have already sent pipe bombs to Democrats, supporters who have shot up pizza shops and almost blew up a ferry.

I'm sorry but November will be a bloodbath if Biden wins. Trump and the GOP will contest this election. Unfortunately I have been right about trump since 2016 and I maintain that he or his supporters will harm Biden. I worry for kamala Harris too, as a black woman in America she is in for one hell of a vicious campaign

FireUnderTheHand · 21/08/2020 18:41

And for the billionth time...

Our votes do not really count for POTUS as the electors (while expected to follow popular vote) have autonomy in who they elect as POTUS... let that sink in - 538 people decide who will be elected as POTUS on behalf of 328M people. That is a fact. Disputing this is as disingenuous as saying that the sky is green and red tartan.

The electoral college elects POTUS, not the citizens.

So all the 'can you live with this' shit is just manipulative. I know my vote is meaningless because I understand our system. Regardless of what the citizens want POTUS will be chosen for us.

Those of you attempting to apply UK election standards - it doesn't work that way here - see below for contrast for illustration....

UK:

  • 66.65M population
  • True FPTP (has its flaws)
  • 650 voting counties, each with an MP elected by popular vote
  • Party with most MPs forms ruling government
  • Ruling government (party) leader becomes PM executive branch (no voting)
  • Parliament based on ruling party, vote for MP is a vote for PM is a vote for Parliament legislative body (650 MPs)
  • Beyond that each of the 4 countries (states for the US readers) have their own constitutions and govern accordingly

US:

  • 328.2M population
  • Hybrid FPTP (so many flaws and manipulations)
  • 538 electors (electoral college), nominated by a party (Rep or Dem)
  • Electoral college (electors) select POTUS on their own... they have votes to look at but the decision is theirs alone
  • 270+ electoral college votes (half or more) wins POTUS executive branch
  • Plurality voting (in most cases) Congress's representatives are 2 Senators for each state (Senate) + differing number of Members of House (House) based on each state's population and make up the legislative body; Congress election is not determined by POTUS
  • Beyond all that, each of the 50 states has its own constitution, governor, and congress which are voted in using various methods (multi-winner, single-winner)

So it is much easier to contrast than to compare as there are many more differences than similarities. Asserting that UK electoral perspective is remotely impactful in regards to US elections demonstrates a grave misunderstanding of how the two systems work.

wejustdisagree · 21/08/2020 19:01

Our votes do not really count for POTUS as the electors (while expected to follow popular vote) have autonomy in who they elect as POTUS

In some states this is allowed, yes. However, if enough electors actually voted for someone who hadn’t won (as was seriously mooted in 2016), I do believe all hell would break loose.

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 19:07

Fireunder
Nobody else on this thread has discussed the UK's laws and flaws.
Its a thread about the US system
and the major issues for all voters
and for women voters
have been outlined.

Yes, the electoral college choose the president.

FWIW 75000 elderly Tory Party members made Johnson the leader of their party and thus Prime minister last summer without the rest of the country even getting a polling card.

US forces and Government officials pledge allegiance to the flag.
If Trump loses in November he is no longer Commander in Chief.
Biden will be Commander in Chief
and the forces and officials will stand by him
because that is what they are legally required to do.

Anybody who thinks that the top brass in the Forces and the independent members of the Government and Judiciary would throw away all of the checks and balances
for a flake like Trump
should get out more.

Goosefoot · 21/08/2020 19:10

@merrymouse

That's the same model that has alienated increasing sections of the population, increased the precariat, forgotten the working classes, and increased the wealth gap. And, notably, increasingly driven people to vote for extremists, to accept that drastic action is necessary, and drive anti-government sentiment generally.

So what will be the outcome of that?

It's the difference between living in a flawed democracy where people are still free to post rubbish on a site like Mumsnet, and living in a dictatorship where you are always worried about the knock at the door.

Trump is the first step to that kind of dictatorship, because he is not guided by any moral principles, and actively wants to destroy institutions that protect democracy like an independent judiciary and a free press. (I am not talking about the Supreme Court here - I might not like his appointments, but they are qualified and would have been appointed by another republican president - I am more talking about his pardon for Roger Stone and his undermining of the judiciary).

The only thing protecting the US (and the rest of the world) from Trump's worse impulses is his incompetence and laziness, but he can pave the way for a want to be autocrat with drive and intelligence.

No government will ever be the magic bullet that magically protects its population from corrupt dictators forever. All we can do is hope that the majority of people recognise when it is necessary to course correct.

No one is asking for a magic bullet, it's not a matter of asking for a perfect government.

Trump's election didn't come out of the blue. It's a reaction to the kinds of governance that happens under people like Biden. There has been 40 years of uninterrupted globalist, free-trade, banker positive governance in the US, with zero break. The closest the Democrats have come to offering anything else has been Sanders and he was suppressed vigourously.

If they keep electing Bidens and Bushes, there will be another Trump. The next guy who pushes the same buttons in the population though, may be very competent, he may have a real political philosophy of his own and it could be far nastier, and he may even be charming.

Electing Biden now may be the only real option, but it will just confirm for the Democrats that such people are electable. And so that is what they will keep offering.

ListeningQuietly · 21/08/2020 19:13

Goosefoot
If you think Biden is the problem,
out of interest (and as FireUnder gave really interesting answers up thread)
Who would be your picks for
Pres
VP
Sec of State
(any party) ?

FireUnderTheHand · 21/08/2020 19:18

@merrymouse

If you have a spare afternoon read the US constitution. It's all in there.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Constitution

People thought this was a useful document once.

Are you kidding me?

Why would you compare the US constitution to the Weimar?

Sorry (not sorry) to remind you that the land the US inhabits was ravaged by UK castoffs. Your most uptight religious hateful people came here and burnt cities, raped, and forced my indigenous ancestors from their lands because they were sad about not being free to be total solipsists in the UK. Huh?

Our soldiers and your soldiers fought side by side to bring Nazi Germany down so why are you looking to put the US in the Nazi box and not the UK?

Bottom line, the UK and the US have done awful things in their history but neither are Nazis, well because fucking reality.

Yeah you lost all credibility there.

So reserve your judgement, you guys voted the UK version of Trump in - Johnson and Trump are bedfellows. Perhaps look in the mirror before you call us names as any names you would call us equally apply to you.

wejustdisagree · 21/08/2020 19:27

@ListeningQuietly
You didn’t ask me, but here are (were) my picks:
Pres - Bernie Sanders
VP - Tulsi Gabbard
SoS - Tulsi Gabbard. VPs don’t do much, so she’ll probably have the time. Basically, I want someone non-interventionist, and willing to stand up to hawks. Of the contenders, she was as close as they come.

Biden is horrid. Harris isn't as horrid as Biden, but give her time.

FireUnderTheHand · 21/08/2020 19:33

If they keep electing Bidens and Bushes, there will be another Trump. The next guy who pushes the same buttons in the population though, may be very competent, he may have a real political philosophy of his own and it could be far nastier, and he may even be charming.

This is my primary concern. I am more worried about who or what comes next rather than the current goofballs in play.

“If you always do what you’ve always done, you always get what you’ve always gotten.”