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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

A gay man’s journey from TRA to GC

165 replies

noblegiraffe · 07/08/2020 15:05

A gay friend of mine has written about how he went from TRA to GC from a gay perspective. He’s planning on writing some more essays about how the ‘gender cult’ is intrinsically homophobic.

I thought it might be useful to share as a counter to Owen Jones, who he previously believed was a reasonable person to listen to on this. He is also pretty gutted about what has happened to Stonewall, whose authority he trusted.

twitter.com/duncrail78/status/1291373475886768128?s=21

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 09/08/2020 19:38

Because, I sometimes feel there are a lot of gay childless men in positions of power to make decisions or to influence policy. Eg in education, Moffat of No Outsiders, Glazzard at Leeds Beckett.

Do you know, Neuro it had never occurred to me until this second that that applies to Nick Gibb, the eternal Schools Minister?

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FuriousAndFrustrated · 09/08/2020 20:15

He was essentially radicalised by Mumsnet though.

Seriously? He suggested that? So it's our own fault?

FFS.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 09/08/2020 20:19

No, Furious, I meant his about-turn! God I put that really badly didn’t I?

I meant the problem that you posted on Mumsnet was eventually, finally fixed for you by Mumsnet with the complaint being withdrawn.

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 09/08/2020 20:58

I’ve just realised that with umbrella’s post about Rowling and with previous posters talking about a Damascene conversion that some might be thinking on the wrong timescale here.

Discussions started at the end of December last year with Rowling’s tweet about Maya and really kicked off in February with the Labour pledge declaring hate groups. We’re 8 months down the line.

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FuriousAndFrustrated · 09/08/2020 21:09

@noblegiraffe

No, Furious, I meant his about-turn! God I put that really badly didn’t I?

I meant the problem that you posted on Mumsnet was eventually, finally fixed for you by Mumsnet with the complaint being withdrawn.

Ah, ok Smile
FuriousAndFrustrated · 09/08/2020 21:30

Timescale from my perspective:

24 Nov 2019 - facebook discussion.
27 Nov 2019 - facebook messenger conversation culminating in me removing the post.
Nov/Dec 2019 - report to HR.
27 Dec 2019 - my telephone discussion with HR - confirmed no further action.
28 Jun 2020 - apology via third party. I asked if he was contrite enough to withdraw his HR report, being skeptical of his intentions.
30 Jun 2020 - his mail to HR withdrawing complaint (I was not aware of this at the time).
24 Jul 2020 - I saw that he liked/followed some GC people on Twitter and thought, "hmm, interesting."
07 Aug 2020 - this thread appeared!

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 09/08/2020 22:07

Oh wow Furious, I didn’t realise it was so close, in my head your thread was much earlier, although it was definitely playing on my mind when I tentatively stuck my head above the parapet.

I’m feeling a bit weird now, like MN sent me into battle for you. I mean, aside from a few facebook interactions (and the aforementioned Feminism 101 on messenger in 2017) I’ve not spoken to him for about 15 years (I moved away), but we have messaged extensively, this year, about this. And he wrote his article, which I posted, which you saw almost immediately.

Feels like stars aligning.

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TBHno · 09/08/2020 22:10

@FuriousAndFrustrated

I am so sorry to hear what you've been through. You've been far too gracious to this man.

FuriousAndFrustrated · 09/08/2020 23:23

[quote TBHno]@FuriousAndFrustrated

I am so sorry to hear what you've been through. You've been far too gracious to this man. [/quote]
My instinct is not to be remotely gracious about this, and I'll never forgive his actions.

But I'm trying to be the bigger person here, even though internally I'm screaming, "I fucking told you all this!" (and the rest Grin)

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/08/2020 08:40

There is blatant homophobia and as a gay man, he has had his own struggles.

Yes I do 100% agree there. Yet he has still benefitted from male privilege, especially in his formative years.

@FuriousAndFrustrated
It is awful what Duncan put you through. I hope that you are finding this thread cathartic. Nothing wrong with vocalising a few emotions...

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 10/08/2020 18:07

Yet he has still benefitted from male privilege, especially in his formative years.

Yes and I have also pointed out to him that he can avoid homophobia by choosing not to reveal his sexuality (he told colleagues in one job that I was his girlfriend) where women can’t avoid sexism by hiding their sex (although saying that....).

Claiming to be the most oppressed people ever therefore no one else has anything pertinent to say is a tactic of a different group.

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 10/08/2020 18:09

He has written Part 3 if anyone is still reading. twitter.com/duncrail78/status/1292842338952372225?s=21

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EdgeOfACoin · 10/08/2020 20:50

Thanks, noblegiraffe, I'm finding his posts fascinating.

BertiesLanding · 10/08/2020 22:18

I followed and interacted with Duncan on Twitter before I deactivated my account a couple of days ago. (I saw too many reasoned, reasonable people buckling under the invective and decided I didn't want to be part of it anymore.)

I think he has been curious and courageous for the most part. And measured for the most part too. I really enjoyed his Tweets.

NoCisAllWoman · 11/08/2020 10:20

Thanks for posting noble, it's heartening to see someone who was so fervent in their support of Stonewall etc. find common sense and have the humility to admit it. I hope more people read his articles and that he brings them round too.

FuriousAndFrustrated · 12/08/2020 23:30

I came on to say that HR confirmed that the case has been marked as withdrawn. (Still discussing with them as I want it expunging entirely from my record.)

Then I noticed that my first post on this thread has been removed! I can't remember exactly what it said but I don't think it was anything other than entirely factual, so I'm a bit annoyed. Angry

Goosefoot · 13/08/2020 02:40

I've noticed a few odd posts being removed this past week.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/08/2020 09:31

That’s good news, Furious

Really weird about your post being deleted - it’s actually quoted in full a few posts down and it looks....fine? No idea what rules it broke.

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FuriousAndFrustrated · 13/08/2020 11:31

Apparently my use of a particular phrase wasn't '"especially conducive to civil debate."

So beware - the phrase relating to someone having climbed to the top of a hill on this issue might get you in trouble! I had no idea it was so controversial. Yet another one to add to the list..... HmmConfused

ChattyLion · 14/08/2020 07:58

Did you get an email about the it Furious? (I’m still not sure why my post was deleted on this thread- no email). I thought your posts were factual too and it’s been very informatjve to read how you’ve been affected by another colleague’s politics and how your employer has handled their complaint.
I also think it makes a really important record for our personal stories to be able to be posted on FWR even if the reality of those experiences doesn’t always fit within the Talk guidelines. I had thought that was possible. But in any case, I didn’t notice your posts or mine breaking guidelines in the specific deleted instances on this thread.

The Talk guidelines do not seem to explicitly exclude any specific words or phrases- context for using those words is supposed to be taken into account. So if deletions are being given solely for using specific words or phrases then that fact should be flagged in advance prominently. It would be good also to get an email explaining about why a deletion has been done in each specific case.

Anyway- for what it’s worth thanks for posting and I am really sorry that you had a colleague report you at work. It must have been stressful and have affected your working relationships with other colleagues much more widely.

ThePurported · 14/08/2020 10:58

I came on to say that HR confirmed that the case has been marked as withdrawn. (Still discussing with them as I want it expunging entirely from my record.)

That's good Furious

I have to say, the wording of the email bothers me. He withdrew his complaint and no longer wanted it to be recorded as raised by him. So he gets to erase his name, but you are potentially still left with this on your record? That can't be right!

FuriousAndFrustrated · 14/08/2020 14:56

ChattyLion
I didn't get a mail about it. It was only 'cos I went back to the first page to send a link to someone that I spotted the deletion. I had no idea that the hill climbing phrase was taboo!

I'd also be interested to know if my post was reported and then deleted, or if a moderator was just doing routine checks and spotted it.

Having said that, I wouldn't have thought they had enough time to read everything, so either rely on reports or have some kind of bot which trawls posts checking for certain words/phrases.

I really wish my first post deletion had been for something more dramatic! Grin

ThePurported
I agree. It reads as though he doesn't mind my name still being smeared but wants to make sure he's squeaky clean. I'm due to talk to HR on Monday so will clarify the position.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 16/08/2020 14:54

He has written part 4 about homophobia and genital preferences medium.com/@duncanrailton78/part-4-gender-ideology-is-homophobic-7ac0ad3edecd

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 17/08/2020 08:31

Good luck with your HR meeting today, Furious

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