For those who have kids at university - wokedom

[Teal99]

I have no kids, never went to uni - but where I work there are of young graduates who all seem to be totally on board with the trans woman is a woman concept, using pronouns and all manner of wokedom. They all seem like one group who all say the same things, think the same way....

Just for curiosity, if you have children at uni, or just graduated - are there people in this age group who think differently, even if they don't publicly express to their peers/friends that they don't agree with them? I think there must be some individual thought, which must be hard if they want to fit in/not be ostracised.

I think I just want a bit of hope that this period of madness will pass by and people will start to push back against a lot of wokedom. Or is the toothpaste too far out of the tube?

So that’s fine - we agree that different people have different definitions

@PocketPenny

I recently graduated where I was on a course with predominantly young Chinese students and me and one other Brit (all women).

When discussing a Saudi women’s rights document, the other Brit proudly announced ‘But is it intersectional, does it consider transwomen?’. After a thorough explanation as to what a ‘transwoman’ was, the Chinese students were absolutely baffled, laughing among themselves. It was pretty embarrassing! They found the notion hilarious.

They even have a word for it:

www.globaltimes.cn/content/1047989.shtml

DS was TWAW at Uni, but a year on has had a rethink and now says 'mum, I agree with you now'. I asked him if it was anything I had said (he says it wasn't, he was actually so shocked at my views he felt let down for months) . But in lockdown he was watching Jordan Peterson videos and that led him to Posie Parker and says he now gets it and what can he do as a young man to help. I must admit I had tears I my eyes.

@RedtreesRedtrees

So that’s fine - we agree that different people have different definitions

And are 'woke' people protected by law, RedtreesRedtrees?

Is there ever a need to classify certain people as 'woke' and provide them with certain protections? Is there, for example, a situation where 'woke' people might be entitled to their own sports or changing rooms? Is 'woke' a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act?

BTW, plenty of people have provided alternative definitions for 'woke'. What about an alternative definition for 'man' or 'woman'?

@CasuallyMasculine

Btw I’m on the thread, so please don’t @ me - it just clogs up my inbox.

Well maybe shorten your username (or change your notification settings) because fighting autocorrect on a phone to write out your username in full the old way, is a terrible faff compared to the easy shortcut of simply hitting @ and the whole list of names pops up.

DS (university) is not willing to admit it, but I can tell he sees it all as nonsense. DD1 (14) tried the “but they have female brains” line, before I shut that down. She’ll come round; too smart not to. I think I’ve got DD2 sorted though. Got in with the GC education before she goes to high school next week. She’ll politely nod along, but she has had enough seeds of doubt dropped in so as not to get fooled.

... They've got an LGBTQ+ club at school, at least one child in their year who is T...

May I ask: how many children are openly gay or Lesbian? I have the feeling that it might still be difficult to come out (as homosexual) at school just like it is at football clubs. But hope to be wrong.

baron

Ds1 came out at school at 13...I dont think he joined a club though

Oh and he came out as bi but always preferred boys

We’ve also had ‘wokedom’, ‘wokerati’, ‘wokeness’ and ‘woke culture’

...and we've also had people who can't define the simple word "woman" and people who will not answer any questions at all.

Crazy world, eh?

Well maybe shorten your username (or change your notification settings) because fighting autocorrect on a phone to write out your username in full the old way

Arrietty, that’s why a lot of us just use short forms when addressing people. I switched @ off because I don’t want notifications so it makes no difference to me, but most people just call me Empress & I’m sure Casually doesn’t expect people to type the whole thing.

@EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus

Well maybe shorten your username (or change your notification settings) because fighting autocorrect on a phone to write out your username in full the old way

Arrietty, that’s why a lot of us just use short forms when addressing people. I switched @ off because I don’t want notifications so it makes no difference to me, but most people just call me Empress & I’m sure Casually doesn’t expect people to type the whole thing.

Switching it off certainly seems a more reasonable response than leaving it on and instructing everyone on a thread not to use it when talking to you. This is about the sixth time I have seen the completely unreasonable diktat recently.

Switching it off certainly seems a more reasonable response than leaving it on and instructing everyone on a thread not to use it when talking to you. This is about the sixth time I have seen the completely unreasonable diktat recently.

Well that’s at least 6 other people who agree with me then .

And now that we have the quote function, there’s no need to type the username at all because it’s obvious who you’re replying to.

@RedtreesRedtrees

So that’s fine - we agree that different people have different definitions

No, I definitely don’t agree that there’s a definition of women that includes men.

Has red defined "woman" yet?

“ No, I definitely don’t agree that there’s a definition of women that includes men.”

There are definitions of woman that include men. You just don’t agree with them. There’s a key difference.

An adult female human being

[quote Justhadathought]**@Justhadathought to me your addendum just reads like a description of the GC posters here, minus obviously the words “of youth

Many of us here have been involved in social justice movements over many decades. Fought for what has now been achieved, and taken for granted. The woke generation are reaping the benefits but seem totally unaware of it. Trying to re-invent the wheel. Casting about for the next big oppression.[/quote]
^ This. Starting with youth movements of the 60's (of which I was a part) I've seen trends come and go. I, too, back then thought society was on the cusp of a brand new way of thinking, that by the time we were older everything would have COMPLETELY changed, to our way of thinking.

We thought we were 100% right and they would all just die off as we took over. I mean, is there any difference between the lyrics to this song, our anthem back then, and what today's youth are saying?

"Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'"

Full text on that link, worth reading especially if you remember those times! Especially the words addressing mothers and fathers! They could take it over, verbatim!

The difference is that never, ever has there been the bullying and aggression and self-righteousness that today's genderist crowd demonstrates.

No, Redtrees, it's not us GC women who are the victims of group-think. Take it from someone with better perspective. The only thing different from THIS lot is that institutions and businesses and politicians are falling to their bidding. And that is really, really scary.
And yet: Didn't happen then, and it won't happen now. We will move on and get over this blip, even though it's a pretty serious blip.
In 20 years time we'll look back and think, were they totally mad, back then?

@SunsetBeetch

Thanks for that article. Interesting to see different perspectives and cultures.

This stood out to me:

One of the users said that baizuo are people "who advocate inclusiveness and anti-discrimination but cannot tolerate different opinions." Another Zhihu user wrote that baizuo's opinions were so shallow that they tend to maintain social equality by embracing ideologies that run against the basic concept of equality.

...

Some people believe baizuo are phony and hypocritical and will make the situation in the West go from bad to worse, said Zhang Yiwu, a cultural scholar at Peking University.

I literally do not know how to do that from a mobile. You’re free to assume whatever you like. I wonder though, do you think objectively that these threads are a welcoming place for people with contrary views to the GC perspective? Do you think maybe some lurkers would like to query aspects but don’t want the collective pile on that always follows?

“ Take it from someone with better perspective”

I work with young people and my experience is that, generally speaking, the more middle class they are, the more likely they are to be woke. The ordinary working class young people I work with tend to think it's all nonsense. They also tend to be way more vulnerable in lots of ways. They will tell me about rapes and assaults happening in the mixed sex loos at their schools, and local TW who hit and bully women in the nightclubs they go to. Often the care-experienced young people will have many stories of male abuse and see TW as simply wanting to get access to vulnerable girls.

Having said that, they all tend to have a huge amount of compassion for anyone they see as genuinely dysphoric. But they know that people can't change sex.

It's the young people from middle class 'good' homes who have never really experienced "the system" or any kind of disadvantage who are the woke - and they can also tend to be bullies and thought-police. It really does seem to divide along class lines in my experience.

@RedtreesRedtrees

“ No, I definitely don’t agree that there’s a definition of women that includes men.”

There are definitions of woman that include men. You just don’t agree with them. There’s a key difference.

I could make up a definition of "Indian" that includes Chinese. Nothing and no-one is stopping me. Thank goodness, though, we don't just get to make up definitions as we go along. The original holders of the definition get to say no. Indians would get to say no.

Thank goodness, a definition that has been valid for hundreds if not thousands of years can't be changed just by a few people claiming it.
The word woman is taken. Men can't have it.
Transwomen are transwomen.