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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

William Shatner

288 replies

Dragonglass · 04/08/2020 17:57

Has anyone seen William Shatner's twitter? He is arguing against the use of cis and how it is an insult. He seems to be doing quite well too.

OP posts:
Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:06

@Littlemeadow123 you've made demands on the majority of users here. I bet irl you make demands on people who don't believe your ideology. You say you are sensitive to peoples feelings, but I bet you draw the line when they don't reflect your own. In other words, a hypocrite.

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 14:07

@DialSquare

A lot of people on mumsnet are. That's a well known fact. It doesn't have a reputation of being transphobic net for nothing. Touchy, much?

DickKerrLadies · 05/08/2020 14:07

[quote Littlemeadow123]@DickKerrLadies

My friend told me.a few years ago that he wanted to live as a woman and be referred to as a woman. So it would be unkind and offensive if I carried on calling him a man, if I addressed him by his male name instead of the female one he chose etc etc.[/quote]
How does someone 'live as a woman', though? And, more specifically, how does a man live as a woman? Obviously anyone can change their name.

I can understand wanting to lie to a friend to protect their feelings, however, so I can see why you would want to call specific trans people 'women'.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:08

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

It wasn't that long ago that we didn't use words like straight, bisexual, non-binary, asexual etc but we do now. I guess that we are all a brainwashed cult!

You are showing your true colours now darling. Grin[/quote]
A moot point, because these descriptor have actual meaning to them and aren't based on a made up belief system.

If my true colours are that of a logical person who has no time for pandering to tantrums of grown adults, then fair enough, I'll take it.

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 14:09

@Spinachfinger

All I've asked is that people accept the fact that the word cis doesn't make me.want ot throw up into a toilet. If it makes you want to hurl, then fair enough.

hammie46i · 05/08/2020 14:09

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

It wasn't that long ago that we didn't use words like straight, bisexual, non-binary, asexual etc but we do now. I guess that we are all a brainwashed cult!

You are showing your true colours now darling. Grin[/quote]
Thing is, words like 'straight', 'bisexual', 'asexual' don't ask us to throw biological sex out of the window and vulnerable women under the bus.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:10

And you still havent answered how you being a 'cis' woman is different to my experiences as a woman. You asked yesterday do I know what it's like to feel like a cis woman..... so I'll wait for your reply.

DialSquare · 05/08/2020 14:12

[quote Littlemeadow123]@DialSquare

A lot of people on mumsnet are. That's a well known fact. It doesn't have a reputation of being transphobic net for nothing. Touchy, much?[/quote]
And the reputation comes from people who think humans can change sex so I take what they say with a pinch of salt. Please report any actual transphobia you see and Mumsnet will remove the post Not touchy at all. I'm not the one crying about being abused. I just pointed out that you seem to be able to give it but not take it.

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 14:14

I've said all along that I don't care if people don't want to be labelled as cis. You want me to accept that, I do. I ACCEPT that you are not cis. But ever since I've said that I am cis, I've had plenty of abuse and people trying to tell me that cis is null and void. That it means I have zero self respect. That I can't be cis and be a proper woman. That I am brainwashed. All because I have a different opinion to you. It is you @Spinachfinger who is insisting that cis belongs in academia. It is YOU who is trying to force your belief system onto me. It is YOU who is not being accepting. But if you don't want to accept me that's fine.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:14

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

All I've asked is that people accept the fact that the word cis doesn't make me.want ot throw up into a toilet. If it makes you want to hurl, then fair enough.[/quote]
It's not all you've said though is it? You've been actively dismissive of other peoples feeling and come on here throwing your weight around like the world owes you something. You were rude to many posters and took it upon yourself to get offended at everyone. It's like you think that you can't be a trans ally without pandering to modern day bullshit. Most people were trans allies before all this new wave bullshit came to the fore. Forgive us for not jumping on the Newspeak trend that does women (and the trans community) more harm than good. You sound utterly petulant.

bellinisurge · 05/08/2020 14:14

"It wasn't that long ago that we didn't use words like straight, bisexual, non-binary, asexual etc but we do now. I guess that we are all a brainwashed cult!"

I'm in my fifties. The words "straight " and "bisexual " have been going as long as I have been old enough to be aware of them. Which is about 37 years

TyroSaysMeow · 05/08/2020 14:17

When you self-describe as cis you're reifying the cis/trans binary.

You're whacking an artificial distinction between women like me, who've struggled for years because of our inability to meet the demands of the feminine social construct, and women like you, who can play along with your own subordination without feeling you're sacrificing all integrity and sense of self.

Every time you call yourself cis you remind me that I am not this thing that society says women are.

Net result: increasing dysphoria among the class formerly known as women.

And for what?

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:17

That I can't be cis and be a proper woman

Again, where did anyone say this? It must be nice to invent scenarios in your head. I'm lying on a beach in a tropical island sipping cocktails right now. Oh wait, I'm not.

I'm still waiting for your answer. How is you being a cis woman different to my experiences as a woman?

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 14:18

I've said all along that I don't care if people don't want to be labelled as cis. You want me to accept that, I do. I ACCEPT that you are not cis. But ever since I've said that I am cis, I've had plenty of abuse and people trying to tell me that cis is null and void. That it means I have zero self respect. That I can't be cis and be a proper woman. That I am brainwashed. All because I have a different opinion to you. Just because I stuck up for myself against these comments doesn't mean that I was being rude. It is you@Spinachfingerwho is insisting that cis belongs in academia. It is YOU who is trying to force your belief system onto me. It is YOU who is not being accepting. It is YOU who started flinging insults like brainwashed about. But if you don't want to accept me that's fine.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:18

But if you don't want to accept me that's fine. I dont accept your bullshit. Its nonsense.

JamieLeeCurtains · 05/08/2020 14:19

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Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 14:20

@Spinachfinger.

See. Rude. I have never referred to your beliefs as being bullshit. Have a nice day. Life is too short for this.

DialSquare · 05/08/2020 14:20

@DialSquare

It seems I'm shapephobic Spinach!
Particularly with circular.
JamieLeeCurtains · 05/08/2020 14:21

Is that really William Shatner voicing Common People??!

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:22

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Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:23

@JamieLeeCurtains yes, he did the real slim shady too Grin

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:24

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger.

See. Rude. I have never referred to your beliefs as being bullshit. Have a nice day. Life is too short for this.[/quote]
That's cos my beliefs are rooted in science and grounded in reality.

Winesalot · 05/08/2020 14:31

it is you Spinachfingerwho who is insisting that cis belongs in academia.

I think that was me. And I may have not explained clearly that the usage of the word ‘cis’ was always about it being a negative word. Did you understand why I feel it is very different to describing sexual orientation with ‘hetero’, ‘homo’, ‘bi’ and ‘a’?

Doesn’t matter if you don’t agree. As long as you can see my reasoning.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 14:33

@Winesalot, I said the same thing too in an earlier post.

Winesalot · 05/08/2020 14:35

Apologies.

Did you understand why I feel it is very different to describing sexual orientation with ‘hetero’, ‘homo’, ‘bi’ and ‘a’? Did you understand why something being used meaning ‘non-trans’ makes this a negative word as it only describes what it is NOT!!

That should read.