William Shatner

[Dragonglass]

Has anyone seen William Shatner's twitter? He is arguing against the use of cis and how it is an insult. He seems to be doing quite well too.

I’ve never laughed aloud so much as when I read his book, Up Til Now. Had to stop reading it on the train, it was becoming embarrassing.

Littlemeadow are you not bothered at all that you are now relegated to a subset by a group of people who are not actually women claiming that label?

Personally, I'm not bothered about being a member of a subset. I'm bothered about being a subset of a set that nobody can define, rendering all discussion of any set meaningless for legislative and medical purposes.

I did like Shatner. But I am more of a Jean Luc fan to be fair.

However, I think I love William Shatner now!! He has nailed it indeed.

My issue with cis is that it means ‘non-trans’ while hetero actually has a real purpose in positively describing attraction. And historic application of being used as well. Hetero does not mean ‘not gay’.

Therefore, does ‘cis’ have use at all for humans outside of academia? For example to use another dysmorphia. Do we call people without anorexia ‘non-anorexic’ people?

And frankly, this belief in having a gender is truly like having a religion. While technically you can go around and say people might be Christian or non-Christian, saying that centres Christianity in that discussion. Is that being ‘kind’?

Like Shatner, I have come to the believe the term is used negatively to harass. If you want to pin that label on yourself, go for it. If you are talking to people in real life, and you refer to them in that way and you don’t know them, then it is not appropriate.

I know very few people in real life who believe they have a gender identity at all and who would think cis applies to them.

I am impressed Rufus that you had a tribble! Was it any trouble at all?

I knew he was still with us but I am amazed and delighted. Always imagined him as a coke addled old celeb , basking in the dim glow of his own ego. God forgive me !

Honestly, it's quite simple to me - I won't refer to someone as cis because I don't believe it exists. Obviously I believe people who call themselves cis exist, I'm not wishing you (general you) away like a fairy, but I do not subscribe to that belief-system myself.

Actually scratch that - I may refer to someone as "self identified as cis", purely because it makes their beliefs nice and clear.

Same as I might refer to someone as bisexual but I wouldn't use pansexual, regardless of what someone calls them-self.

@itsaratrap

I’ve never laughed aloud so much as when I read his book, Up Til Now. Had to stop reading it on the train, it was becoming embarrassing.

Thanks, I'm looking for something to read now that I've finished all the Cormoran Strike books. Have ordered.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@NoCisAllWoman

Or so being cis means that I am less of a woman. Do you know anything about the way cis people think or feel?[/quote]
For me the term "cis" is redundant and often insulting and dismissive (as many OPs and Shatner! have pointed out). My choice of username reflects my feelings on this - not yours Littlemeadow123. Stop projecting, stop assuming that people disagreeing with your opinions makes you a victim, that we're forcing our opinions on you (that's not how we think here).

Btw, how many cis people do you know exactly, to ask them how they think or feel about womanhood? Answer that, before asking me if I know anything about cis people...

And frankly, this belief in having a gender is truly like having a religion. While technically you can go around and say people might be Christian or non-Christian, saying that centres Christianity in that discussion. Is that being ‘kind’?

This. An atheist would deeply resent a belief that they both rejected and thought was harmful being centred. And so do I. I'm not centring this ideology in anything to do with me.

Same as I might refer to someone as bisexual but I wouldn't use pansexual, regardless of what someone calls them-self.

Me neither. It's an extra identity label founded in gender identity ideology. Bisexual is the sexual orientation, and it covers being attracted to all flavours of gender identity.

@Babdoc

Calling a woman cisgender is an insult. It means she accepts the vile gender stereotypes associated with being female in a patriarchal society- that she is comfortable with being oppressed, underpaid, sexually assaulted, regarded as hysterical, emotional, weak and empty headed, interested only in fashion and make up. That she should only aspire to children and housework, and defer to males. Gender is a totally artificial social construct, unlike sex which is fixed at conception and unchangeable for life. No feminist woman would ever accept a cis label - we reject the entire concept of gender roles. We are women purely because of our XX chromosomes, and we have nothing else in common with each other except our biology and oppression. Our personalities, characteristics and skills are completely diverse, and include everything that gender stereotyping would consider male. This is why using the cis word is offensive.

Message of the day. I agree with every word. Cutting and pasting into my best clips from MN folder.

I am impressed Rufus that you had a tribble! Was it any trouble at all

There was No trouble with my tribble

As you know the trouble with tribbles is actually tribbles

I had a solo tribble

Does anyone know where Jonathan Frakes stands on this? Because he started my lifelong beard appreciation (still annoyed beards became hip and then woke) and I know he fought hard to have the sexless alien Riker fell for be acted by a man rather than a woman, but I don't dare google lest I'm dreadfully disappointed.

Shatner's definitely gone up in my estimation these past twenty four hours.

And 'cis' isn't like 'hetero' because the latter has a clearly defined and commonly accepted meaning. The former doesn't, as demonstrated by this thread and many others. I find it illuminating to infer definition from an individual's usage, rather than trusting the definition they give. But this is a derail. Back to Trek!

Anyone else annoyed by all the bollocks the "Star Trek" fb page is coming out with these days? Apparently Seven of Nine was "queer". WTF?

Anyone else annoyed by all the bollocks the "Star Trek" fb page is coming out with these days? Apparently Seven of Nine was "queer". WTF?

I don't follow that sort of SM thing... is 'queer' being used there just as tedious wokespeak for her being bisexual?

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

I am impressed Rufus that you had a tribble! Was it any trouble at all

There was No trouble with my tribble

As you know the trouble with tribbles is actually tribbles

I had a solo tribble

That's not possible, you can't have been feeding it.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Maybe it's just my perception but it is almost sneery

It can be very dismissive

To me, saying that all non-trans people are "cis" is the equivalent of saying all non-Christians are heathens. It assumes that trans (like Christianity) is the default and that belief in gender (like Jesus) is shared but rejected.

That's not possible, you can't have been feeding it

That might explain why it escaped 🤔

Or did it?

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuun

That's not possible, you can't have been feeding it.grin

As they are already pregnant when they are born, it is a hard balance to strike though. Too little and they die, too much and well, you have trouble.

Rufus

You don't have a grain storage facility that it might have snuck away to? Hope it was not poisoned grain....

You don't have a grain storage facility that it might have snuck away to

Will check garden...its not that big a garden but I rarely pay attention to things so anything is possible

I dunno, Errol, my eyes were rolling too hard for me to actually click the link. Pissed me off though; I really don't think 21st century wokeism will be the flavour of the day in the 24th century so why are people trying to shoehorn it in there?

And 'cis' isn't like 'hetero' because the latter has a clearly defined and commonly accepted meaning. The former doesn't

That is what I don't understand. Heterosexual was written about in the 1800's and was recognised as 'attracted to opposite sex'. It keeps being used as a 'gotcha'. NO! In this usage, it has a meaning that contributes to the purpose of defining sexual attraction.

And that meaning isn't 'not-homosexual'.

Will check garden...its not that big a garden but I rarely pay attention to things so anything is possible

Good luck. I will keep an eye on the news for a biohazard event of a plague of introduced species on the beeb. Just in case, you should have someone standing watch in case they avalanche out and bury you.

Just in case, you should have someone standing watch in case they avalanche out and bury you

Excellent point