William Shatner

[Dragonglass]

Has anyone seen William Shatner's twitter? He is arguing against the use of cis and how it is an insult. He seems to be doing quite well too.

@Littlemeadow123

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.

You can apply the terms to yourself if you want. But don't force them on other people, many of whom don't 'identify with a gender' . Most people just have a sex and their own individual character. Calling other people 'Cis' against their wishes is against MN talk guidelines.

@Littlemeadow123

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.

It's not similar at all to me. Plus why do you get to choose the words for me about my sex, my feelings about stereotyped roles, my life, my material reality and my beliefs? That's awfully privileged of you.

You'll be hijacking my hysterectomy next.

@Littlemeadow123

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.

I wasn’t born with any gender.

@ErrolTheDragon What about other kinds of labels that we use. Gay? Straight? Bisexual? Homosexual? Lesbian? Heterosexual? Heck, even things like Extrovert, Introvert, Ambivert are labels. Should we stop using them too? Or is it just because cis is linked to trans.

@Littlemeadow123

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.

I’m ‘not purple.’ This does not mean I get to describe everyone not like me as ‘purple.’ How one person defines themselves does not impact on how I define me. Surely the who point of how one identifies oneself is that others do not get to have a say in the how of that?

@JamieLeeCurtains I'm just trying to understand it. If you saw me kissing a woman you'd no doubt label me as a lesbian or bisexual. If you saw me dressing like a man, undergoing treatment etc then you would label me as transsexual. So no, Cis isn't really any different.

It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.

No it isn't, because it presupposes that I think male people are women. Which isn't the case.

@Littlemeadow123

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.

Long story short: sex is why women are oppressed and gender is how. Cis and trans entrench the gender roles women have been fighting against for years. What does it mean to 'live as a woman'? Wear a dress, be patronised, earn less?

Plenty of people don't ascribe to the notion that their sexed bodies determine anything about them apart from biological function. Having a vagina doesn't make you have long hair, love pink sparkly things, think ditsy thoughts and need rescuing by a prince. Oh, and good at making sandwiches. Having a penis doesn't make you strong, brave, insensitive objective, and incapable of changing a nappy.

People who object to cis and trans are people, not stereotypes.

I agree that is wrong to assume that someone is cis, but I don't see anything wrong with someone calling themselves cis if that is the case. My trans friends call me cis, because they know that is the case. And I don't mind.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@ErrolTheDragon What about other kinds of labels that we use. Gay? Straight? Bisexual? Homosexual? Lesbian? Heterosexual? Heck, even things like Extrovert, Introvert, Ambivert are labels. Should we stop using them too? Or is it just because cis is linked to trans.[/quote]
I didn't say you should stop using anything. Just that you shouldn't assume other people are ok with you sticking a label on them.
Cis and trans are a bit like insisting that everyone is a Muslim or a Christian ... I don't want any religious label.

sex is why women are oppressed and gender is how.

^^

Because I don't want to be made a subset of my own sex, whilst transwomen get to be referred to as women. I find it offensive.

Also I feel other women referring to themselves as cis are deferring to men and being labelled by men. It has a submissive tone to it.

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.

I don’t care if you identify as cis. But I would find it extremely offensive if you called me cis because it means you define me as a member of a group that includes transwomen but excludes transmen, and that isn’t how I define myself.

You see, I am not trans at all and have never given any thought to my gender identity whatever.

But if I were to do so, I don't think I could happily call myself 'cis' - I am very uncomfortable in that gender role. For instance, I hate wearing make up, dresses and high heals. I feel very uncomfortable when dressed up - for instance, at a wedding - when I catch sight of myself in a mirror I don't see myself, I see an imposter, and am unhappy in that skin.

In my house, I am the breadwinner, the decision maker, older than my husband. I am not a mother.

So, I am definitely not 'cis', but if I am not trans either, what am I?

Well, just a woman. A normal woman. And I don't need any other identifier....

agree that is wrong to assume that someone is cis, but I don't see anything wrong with someone calling themselves cis if that is the case. My trans friends call me cis, because they know that is the case. And I don't mind

If you want to label yourself in any way, that's up to you. But don't impose it on others, please. We don't all share your beliefs.

Calling me cis is a bit like putting me down as CofE as I haven't expressed adherence to any other religion.
I.e. Sod off, I'm an atheist. And a gender-atheist too.

[quote Littlemeadow123]@ErrolTheDragon What about other kinds of labels that we use. Gay? Straight? Bisexual? Homosexual? Lesbian? Heterosexual? Heck, even things like Extrovert, Introvert, Ambivert are labels. Should we stop using them too? Or is it just because cis is linked to trans.[/quote]
Its really not difficult

Dont force labels on to other people

Why the confusion?

@Babdoc

Anybody got a link? I’m not on Twatter. But as a devoted Trekkie for over 50 years I heartily approve of Shatner’s efforts! (Even though I always preferred Spock...)

Quite so.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

That is what I meant. There is nothing wrong with the word cis as long as people only apply it to themselves or to be people they know for a fact identify as cis and therefore don't mind being called that. But there are some people who seem to think that the word should be wiped off the face of the Earth. People on here are saying that they don't want to be called cis. Fair enough, you are not cis. But that doesn't mean that other individuals can't identify as cis. You can't tell me that I must label myself as 'just a woman'. I respect people's right to not be labelled as cis. Do me the same courtesy. I'm cis.

I know this has been said many times before but I'm always bemused by the people who demand we all respect a persons lived experience and call them what they want be called but don't feel the respect should go both ways when being told we don't accept Cis.

@Rufusthesniggeringreindeer

I've already said that you shouldn't force labels onto people. But at the same time, you shouldn't tell people not to identify as cis if they want to. I am cis. I've had people on here tell me not to call myself that, which is quite frankly, a fine example of pot and kettle. They are telling me how I should identify myself.

@DialSquare

I don't have a probably with people not wanting to be called cis. I do have a problem with people telling me not to call myself cis. Maybe I worded myself badly at the beginning but this is essentially what I have been trying to say.

Most people on here are saying you can call yourself what you want so I don't know why you keep labouring the point, littlemeadow.

But surely the real question on this thread should be, are you a Trekkie?