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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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William Shatner

288 replies

Dragonglass · 04/08/2020 17:57

Has anyone seen William Shatner's twitter? He is arguing against the use of cis and how it is an insult. He seems to be doing quite well too.

OP posts:
DialSquare · 05/08/2020 01:05

I personally wouldn't say not gay as there a word that covers that. Heterosexual. Same reason I would say not trans. I wonder what that word could be.

DialSquare · 05/08/2020 01:06

Obviously would should be wouldn't.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 01:06

My gay best friend uses the term 'not gay' when she refers to me. Neither of us see it as derogatory, just more of a fact.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 05/08/2020 01:22

I haven't tried to convince you to call yourself cis. I accept that you are not cis but you clearly cannot accept that I am.

But in what way does calling yourself cis make you something that poster is not? There is no logic in that. If you are both female at birth, why isn't the word woman enough?

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 05/08/2020 01:25

There is no need to add cis, because there is already a word for a biological female, it's woman.

Ritascornershop · 05/08/2020 02:17

I’d be very surprised if Shatner caved. He’s old(er) so gives no fucks about thought-trends, he strikes me as a person secure In his sense of self, and he’s got enough money he doesn’t need to worry about income drying up. Go Bill!

LoveInTheTimeOfCorona · 05/08/2020 02:32

@Ritascornershop

I’d be very surprised if Shatner caved. He’s old(er) so gives no fucks about thought-trends, he strikes me as a person secure In his sense of self, and he’s got enough money he doesn’t need to worry about income drying up. Go Bill!
That’s all true, but remember how quickly Stephen King caved? But I really hope you’re right, I bloody loved TJ Hooker Grin
hammie46i · 05/08/2020 02:40

[quote Littlemeadow123]@ErrolTheDragon What about other kinds of labels that we use. Gay? Straight? Bisexual? Homosexual? Lesbian? Heterosexual? Heck, even things like Extrovert, Introvert, Ambivert are labels. Should we stop using them too? Or is it just because cis is linked to trans.[/quote]
Those are only terms you get to use about yourself though. No one else gets to tell you, you're bisexual or you're an introvert.

I'm not declaring myself as "cis" (nor do I accept this word) therefore no one else can use it about me.

Ritascornershop · 05/08/2020 02:57

True enough about Stephen King, that was bizarre. But Shatner has always had a good sense of humour about himself and just seems fairly unflappable.

Harriedharriet · 05/08/2020 03:14

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Spinachfinger

And just to add, no they wouldn't unfriendly me. They don't have a problem with the term 'woman' They are not out to steal that title from us. I still choose to use the term cis in day to day life because 'not trans' just sets my teeth on edge. I don't say 'not gay' for the same reason. It just sounds derogatory. And derogatory things don't stop being derogatory just because you are not around certain people.

Goodnight.[/quote]
Getting a little ragged there are we Littlemeadow123? (said like Sr. Michael in Derry Girls....). {grin}

Harriedharriet · 05/08/2020 03:16

Go Shatner!!

Ritascornershop · 05/08/2020 05:08

😂 @Harriedharriet ‘s Sister Michael reference.

ChattyLion · 05/08/2020 07:04

I would reject the ‘cis’ label for myself because i regard it as superfluous and pernicious. This is because it is a descriptor that comes from a belief system that many of us completely reject, because the beliefs revolve around sexist stereotypes that are harmful and are homophobic and specifically misogynistic. Anyone else can go ahead that’s their thing though.

I don’t think the below is a logical justification for using ‘cis’ as a prefix (if this was the reason?):
As my trans friend said to me, that she is always going to be a transwoman. Nothing is going to change that.

True, your friend can never become a woman. Nobody can become the opposite sex, everyone knows that. But if they are a ‘transwoman’ ie biologically male and transvestite or transsexual, then they already do not come into the category of woman. So it’s perfectly appropriate that they are not claiming to be a ‘woman’ or a ‘trans woman’ because that would be trying to be included into an inappropriate category group, women which by definition they’re not part of.

So to differentiate women from transsexuals or transvestites, no further embellishments are needed, because being included under ‘women’ is a category grouping that in reality can not be changed by what men do, and which should not be changed by what some men happen to want. So women can stick with the standard, factual category of woman.

merrymouse · 05/08/2020 07:05

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality

It’s a bit like calling somebody a heathen - meaningless if you don’t subscribe to a particular set of beliefs, in this case beliefs about gender identity.

On the other hand heterosexual just means opposite sex attracted. I suppose it would be offensive if applied to somebody who didn’t believe in the concept of sexual attraction.

DickKerrLadies · 05/08/2020 07:08

Ok, so cis means 'not trans'. According to Stonewall, to feel discomfort with your gender role means you fall under the definition of trans. By that extension, cis means one is comfortable with the gender role enforced on them by society.

Even if I didn't fall under the definition of trans, I still couldn't be labelled cis because that label does not apply to me.

If you want to declare yourself as happy with gender stereotypes then go for it, but I cannot label myself as something I am not.

ChattyLion · 05/08/2020 07:15

Apologies, I was missing a ‘biologically male’ in front of the ‘transsexuals or transvestites‘ that I mentioned in the last paragraph.

Same logic also applies to transmen, who are a subset of women and as such also make no change to the factually based overall descriptor called ‘women’. Transmen’s individual and personal identity decisions do not necessitate that women as a class must in general use ‘cis’ as a self distinguishing term to mean ‘not a transman’.

MartySouth · 05/08/2020 07:36

DickKerr you are really mixed up. Cis is nothing to do with gender.

Helmetbymidnight · 05/08/2020 07:41

ooh i love william shatner and would have assumed, likemost americans inthe public eye, he wouldbe wokey mcwoke.
hope he holds firm.

Helmetbymidnight · 05/08/2020 07:43

what do you disagree with re what dickkerr said?

i agree- and i find cis an assumption and an insult.

merrymouse · 05/08/2020 07:51

Transmen’s individual and personal identity decisions do not necessitate that women as a class must in general use ‘cis’ as a self distinguishing term to mean ‘not a transman’.

It's also pretty meaningless when somebody whose sex is female can self-describe as trans because they are femme presenting non binary.
I'm not knocking the reasons why a 'femme presenting non binary' person might wish to find community, but the term 'trans' now includes anyone as long as they claim to subscribe to a particular set of views about gender.

IHeartSusanDey · 05/08/2020 07:52

Littlemeadow, you don't mind people making you a subset of your own sex and insisting that you must identify with your own fucking oppression? REALLY? You need to find some self respect.

BaronEssoStation · 05/08/2020 07:58

I loved him in Star Trek and does anyone remember his Danny Crane in Boston Legal? Absolutely hilarious.

Am so pleased at this turn of events.

I hate this new word that they're trying to foist on us.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 05/08/2020 08:08

@DickKerrLadies

Ok, so cis means 'not trans'. According to Stonewall, to feel discomfort with your gender role means you fall under the definition of trans. By that extension, cis means one is comfortable with the gender role enforced on them by society.

Even if I didn't fall under the definition of trans, I still couldn't be labelled cis because that label does not apply to me.

If you want to declare yourself as happy with gender stereotypes then go for it, but I cannot label myself as something I am not.

No, cis means that one is comfortable with the sex they were observed to be at birth.

It's a redundant prefix because the word "woman" should by itself be sufficient to identify that the person described as such is a biological female. But in this version of The Emperor's New Clothes we're all now living in, some have decreed that it is insufficient to simply describe yourself as a "woman" if you are an adult human female. You know, in case you offend all the other people who have a claim on that term who aren't adult human females.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 05/08/2020 08:33

I love Shatner and I hate sea lions who join a thread to make it all about them and not James Tiberius. My first ever crush, he will always have a special place in my heart.

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