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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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William Shatner

288 replies

Dragonglass · 04/08/2020 17:57

Has anyone seen William Shatner's twitter? He is arguing against the use of cis and how it is an insult. He seems to be doing quite well too.

OP posts:
Littlemeadow123 · 04/08/2020 23:49

@Blibbyblobby

I've got the impressions several times off mumsnet that referring to MYSELF as cis is wrong. I don't care if others don't want to be referred to as cis but I do care about people telling me how I should or shouldn't identify myself.

InTheShadowOfTheMushroomCloud · 04/08/2020 23:53

Anyway... back to James Tiberius...

ErrolTheDragon · 04/08/2020 23:54

Boldly going where no man has gone before...
Well, some have, a bit, I suppose.

imhereforthesanity · 04/08/2020 23:56

I'm not a lover of cis @Littlemeadow123, I personally find it offensive. I didn't find it so a few years ago, but it feels to me like an insult now. But like everyone says, if you are comfortable then fine. But I would always check with women if they are happy to be referred to as cis beforehand and I'd tell your trans friends to do the same. It's the polite thing to do in today's crazy world.

imhereforthesanity · 04/08/2020 23:57

I've also been enjoying his tweet!

BluebonicPlague · 04/08/2020 23:57

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Rufusthesniggeringreindeer

I've already said that you shouldn't force labels onto people. But at the same time, you shouldn't tell people not to identify as cis if they want to. I am cis. I've had people on here tell me not to call myself that, which is quite frankly, a fine example of pot and kettle. They are telling me how I should identify myself.[/quote]
Thank you, Littlemeadow123. You are signalling where you’re coming from: that you’re identifying yourself as not-trans because for you, trans is the measure, there is a state to be transing over or from - and it’s great that you recognise why not everyone wants to be identified that way.

Littlemeadow123 · 04/08/2020 23:58

@ErrolTheDragon The original post did come over a bit anti-cis but maybe I'm just being a bit sensitive because I have received abuse before from people on mumsnet over it. And yes, I am a trekkie

DialSquare · 04/08/2020 23:59

Beam me up Scotty. The world has gone mad and I want to get off.

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 00:02

@imhereforthesanity

I'd never call someone cis, unless they referred to themselves like that. My trans friends only started calling me cis after they heard me call myself that. An even then they asked if I was ok if with them calling me that.

FlibbertyGiblets · 05/08/2020 00:03

Ah this is heartening. Bill gives no fucks.

ThunderSkies · 05/08/2020 00:04

@CallarMorvern

Because I don't want to be made a subset of my own sex, whilst transwomen get to be referred to as women. I find it offensive.
Exactly this.
BluebonicPlague · 05/08/2020 00:04

Meanwhile, OT, there's famously no love lost between Shatner and Takei. I have no idea where the truth lies. But RIP Leonard Nimoy:

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 05/08/2020 00:11

@Littlemeadow123

I agree that is wrong to assume that someone is cis, but I don't see anything wrong with someone calling themselves cis if that is the case. My trans friends call me cis, because they know that is the case. And I don't mind.
No, they call you cis to differentiate you as 'not trans'. I don't want to be defined as not trans. I don't want to be defined as cis. Just plain simple woman/female will do. I am not a sub set of females or women. I don't need an adjective. I don't align myself with transwomen - they are not a subset of women.
Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 00:12

'^^Thank you, Littlemeadow123. You are signalling where you’re coming from: that you’re identifying yourself as not-trans because for you, trans is the measure, there is a state to be transing over or from - and it’s great that you recognise why not everyone wants to be identified that way.'

You see what I mean about people not always being pleasant about individuals who identify as cis. @BluebonicPlague You are making assumptions about my reasons for identifying as cis (by the way, you have missed the mark). And I say that I am cis. You automatically call me 'Not trans'. Tbh that whole post was a bit patronising and derogatory.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 05/08/2020 00:13

[quote Littlemeadow123]@Ereshkigalangcleg

That is what I meant. There is nothing wrong with the word cis as long as people only apply it to themselves or to be people they know for a fact identify as cis and therefore don't mind being called that. But there are some people who seem to think that the word should be wiped off the face of the Earth. People on here are saying that they don't want to be called cis. Fair enough, you are not cis. But that doesn't mean that other individuals can't identify as cis. You can't tell me that I must label myself as 'just a woman'. I respect people's right to not be labelled as cis. Do me the same courtesy. I'm cis.[/quote]
Why do you need to 'identify' as cis?
That's a serious question - not intended to be goady.
I simply don't understand it.

NoCisAllWoman · 05/08/2020 00:13

Littlemeadow123 I've got the impressions several times off mumsnet that referring to MYSELF as cis is wrong.

No one has said that to you in this thread. Clearly.

Really surprised that Shatner has spoken out, his Twatter bio does mention that he has 3 daughters, maybe that makes a difference? Good for him.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 00:14

Where did this phrase even come from and when did it start? Was it used 10 years ago? 5 years ago?

Never heard of it til about 2 years ago and that was from reading threads on here.

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 00:18

@TheWordWomanIsTaken

Why do people need to be straight? Or gay? Or bi? Or non-binary? Or lesbians? Or Transeuxals?

Maybe we should do away with all labels and just be humans.

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 00:18

Transsexuals.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 00:18

Just read on Wikipedia that it was a term used by medical academics in the 90s in journals about transgender people. The terms cisgender and cissexual. The term cisgender was added to the Oxford dictionary in 2013.

I can understand why the phrase would be used in an academic sense but to use it irl just seems silly.

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 00:19

[quote Littlemeadow123]@TheWordWomanIsTaken

Why do people need to be straight? Or gay? Or bi? Or non-binary? Or lesbians? Or Transeuxals?

Maybe we should do away with all labels and just be humans.[/quote]
Cracking idea!

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 00:21

@Spinachfinger

Oh because that's really respectful isn't it. I'm cis and if that makes me silly then fair enough. I've never told anyone on here they are silly for not identifying as cis but asking for the same kindness is obviously too much.

Littlemeadow123 · 05/08/2020 00:23

@NoCisAllWoman

Or so being cis means that I am less of a woman. Do you know anything about the way cis people think or feel?

Spinachfinger · 05/08/2020 00:31

See? Look how easily offended you are when an an internet random says cis is silly. I have no qualms with calling you cis but I don't actually envisage a situation irl where i would ever need to use that as a descriptor.

Example 1: I'm a first aider. If a cis woman went into cardiac arrest and I had to administer CPR, I'm pretty certain when the emergency services had been called, I would just describe the patient as a 'female, in cardiac arrest, unresponsive, etc'. Wouldnt enter my head to stick cis in there.

Example 2: If I saw a man mugging a woman on the street and had to report it to the police I would say "male, aged approx mid 30s/40, etc etc". Again no need for the word cis.

Example 3: meeting a lovely person and discussing with a friend. "Oh I met X yesterday, what a lovely woman she is, blah blah blah"

I just cannot envisage when I would ever use the term.... seems kind of redundant. If you want to label yourself crack on, but to me, if you looked like a woman and I had no idea of your labelling preferences, I would describe you as a woman if it came up in conversation generally.

OldCrone · 05/08/2020 00:32

@Littlemeadow123

What is wrong with saying cis and trans to describe whether or not you identify with the gender you were born with? It's similar to saying straight, gay, bisexual etc to describe your sexuality.
What do you mean by 'identify with the gender you were born with'? Nobody is born with a gender. What are you identifying with?
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