JKR and Posie

[Cismyfatarse1]

Look what Posie did. Edinburgh Waverley station.

Well said @Melroses. Bring on the arrogance and ego of women if it conquers TRA ideology and restores women's rights.

I hope @BetsyM00 that someone videos the Edinburgh speakers corner event and puts it on you tube. I will watch it there as I cannot go to the event. Hope it gets millions of views.

Yep, see where being nice has got us.

I agree Melroses. Also, the older I get, the less shits I give so am quite happy to not tiptoe around people and topics.

Hi craftyjan I think the guest speakers will be live streamed on For Women Scotland's YouTube channel so tune in at 2pm tomorrow.

m.youtube.com/channel/UCE91hRSUC7SfIH4EnJaaulA

I don’t like Posies refusal to call trans women, trans women either. Or the fact that she won’t use her and she for trans women. I understand why she doesn’t, she’s told us why, but I can’t agree. Whilst we are letting people transition, I do not think trans women should be called men and he. There are really troubled people involved and I don’t wish to cause further upset to them. I don’t believe trans women should be allowed in women’s prisons, women’s refuges, women’s sport etc but I see calling them she and her and trans women as something that I can do. Posies stance is just a bit too extreme for me.

Fair enough, but what is your definition of 'transwoman'?
In the UK it seems to mean any man who says he is a woman. See e.g. IPSO guidance.

I think self confidence is a good thing. I don’t see that in Posie though.

You don't think Posie is self confident?

I don’t like Posies refusal to call trans women, trans women either. Or the fact that she won’t use her and she for trans women. I understand why she doesn’t, she’s told us why, but I can’t agree.

Read this for a better understanding.
fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Fair enough, but what is your definition of 'transwoman'?
In the UK it seems to mean any man who says he is a woman. See e.g. IPSO guidance.

I’m absolutely not in favour of self ID. I think there has to be some sort of commitment to ‘living as a woman’, whatever the hell that means. People with true gender dysphoria, if we are in my opinion letting them down so badly that we’re allowing them to change their bodies, then I feel we shouldn’t call them men and he. I really hope one day that they are no longer let down by medical professionals and that they are helped instead to accept their own body and these hormones and operations are banned. But until then there is no way that if that person is in front of me that I would call them a man or he.

I don’t pretend to face all the answers, it’s so complex but that’s just how I feel.

You don't think Posie is self confident?

I think she’s so overconfident, it goes very far past self confident.

I think I do have a good understanding of this subject. I’m sure you will blame my willingness to call trans women she or her on being ‘kind’ because I’m a woman and that’s what I’ve been made to feel I should be. You can believe that if you want. I don’t know what else to say, I really do share the same concerns as many on this board. I’m a mum, I have a children and I want them protected.

*James
*
Do you believe TWAW? If you don't, then calling them she/her can only be because you are kind. Posie isn't overconfident. She's very confident in her beliefs and stands by them at a cost. Far more than many others are prepared or able to do. You just have differing opinions. That's fine. I personally think she's fantastic.

I think there has to be some sort of commitment to ‘living as a woman’, whatever the hell that means.

What does it mean? Because if laws are based on this then we need to define exactly what it means.

What does it mean? Because if laws are based on this then we need to define exactly what it means.

There is not an agreed upon, or even coherent, definition of man, woman, lesbian, homosexuality, non-binary, transwoman, transman, gender, or gender identity.

As soon as anyone starts to define them, they have to rely on either circular definitions, or definitions that cancel each other out.

A lesbian is a woman who is sexually attracted to a woman, or if that woman is a man who identifies as a woman, and so is the woman they are attracted to. Who could be a man, or a woman.

And what constitutes a woman, or a man??

Does 'living as a woman' mean a biological woman. Is a woman who identifies as a man living as a woman when they give birth? Or is a man who identifies as a woman living as a woman because of clothes?

Is a woman, who identifies as a woman, living as a woman because she gives birth? In which case a woman who identifies as a man and gives birth must also be living as a woman.

And if you never give birth, does that mean you're not living as a woman?

It's complete gobbledygook, as soon as you scratch the surface.

One of my colleagues transitioned MTF some time ago. He changed his name and started down the part of hormones etc. We were told his new name and that we were to start using she!her. He was also allowed to use the female toilets. Two years later he detransitioned and is back to his old name and pronouns. It was like that time in Dallas when Bobby came out of the shower and it had all been dream. This is one of the many reasons I cannot go along with TWAW.

@JamesArthursEyelashes

My I ❤JK Rowling tote bag arrived this morning, and I only ordered it yesterday.

Maybe there’s not much demand. 🤣 I mean I like her and agree with what she’s said but it’s a bit cringe to go around with a bag declaring that.

I ordered 2 items from SFW late Thursday evening and they arrived this morning, neither of those were JKR merch

Ordered my I❤JK Rowling t-shirt and it arrived this morning 😁

My order arrived in record time too. She’s jolly good!

A lesbian is a woman who is sexually attracted to a woman, or if that woman is a man who identifies as a woman, and so is the woman they are attracted to. Who could be a man, or a woman.

I think I'm more drunk than I thought because I can't follow that

I haven't seen that much of Posie, and she maybe a bit much for me usually but I think we definitely need someone like her! I ordered some things on Thursday, in solidarity, and, despite getting an email saying orders may take over two weeks, they came today. I also got a free I love J K sticker which I put up when I went shopping, it felt quite empowering!

I don’t like Posies refusal to call trans women, trans women either. Or the fact that she won’t use her and she for trans women. I understand why she doesn’t, she’s told us why, but I can’t agree. Whilst we are letting people transition, I do not think trans women should be called men and he. There are really troubled people involved and I don’t wish to cause further upset to them. I don’t believe trans women should be allowed in women’s prisons, women’s refuges, women’s sport etc but I see calling them she and her and trans women as something that I can do. Posies stance is just a bit too extreme for me.

You would not like me, then, evn though I'm practically the opposite of Posie, really nice and kind and helpful and soft spoken.
But this whole TRA thing has unleashed a side in me that I;ve never seen before and I refuse to "be kind" to men who think they are women by calling them by the wrong pronouns. I will not do it. I don;t cane how hurt they are.

I grew up black in a colonial world at a time (50s and 60s) when the conventional wisdom that being black was infinitely inferior to being white. I accepted that conventional wisdom without objection, without crying out "I'm hurt! I'm offended!" even once.
I was 16 before I began to see the light, when the civil rights movement finally gained traction. Even then I didn't go about blaming others for hurting me. I worked on myself to overcome that hurt,

I didn't cry about being hurt, I didn't act all huffy and offended when people hurt me.

I found my own inherent strength and confidence without needing the world to clap and validate me and bend to my need not to be hurt.
It was the most valuable experience of my life and I'm a better and stronger person for it.

I would suggest that transwomen, if they are so sure that they are valid and worthy in their identity, that they work on not being offended by those who call them by the "wrong" pronouns. They'd be far happier and more respected.

I see this in those transsexuals who are able to admit that they are men. They don't whine and whinge about being misgendered, and that's why all my respect and sympathy goes to them. The more you nurse your hurt and offense, the weaker and more unhappy you grow.

Pandering never helps if it denies the truth and objective reality.

Great post, Lamahaha.

Dial That’s exactly one of the situations that means this is the hill I will die on!

A man can pop on a dress, change his name, try out womaning for a bit & Then go back to his old life without that much bother

Whereas it’s demanded of women that we give up every single legal right we have to accommodate blokes like your colleague. We give up everything so that he can have a go at womaning & go back to being a man if he doesn’t like it

This seems quite relevant just now. fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

@Kit19

Dial That’s exactly one of the situations that means this is the hill I will die on!

A man can pop on a dress, change his name, try out womaning for a bit & Then go back to his old life without that much bother

Whereas it’s demanded of women that we give up every single legal right we have to accommodate blokes like your colleague. We give up everything so that he can have a go at womaning & go back to being a man if he doesn’t like it

Exactly. It's a total piss take. And the whole episode was just surreal. He has children too and I've always thought how hard it must have been for them.

@OldCrone

I think there has to be some sort of commitment to ‘living as a woman’, whatever the hell that means.

What does it mean? Because if laws are based on this then we need to define exactly what it means.

also if a man can claim they've always been a woman and they were just born in the wrong body, then they can claim that however they were living is 'living as a woman' even if it's exactly the same as a man who considers himself a man. Similarly, a woman claiming to be a man but in the wrong body can give birth and claim it to be "living as a man" because they're a man and that's how they've been living. To me, half of "living as a woman" is how other people treat you in your "role" of woman (discriminating, belittling, condescending, sexually objectifying etc) in addition to the things you yourself do, which would varying very greatly from woman to woman, culture to culture, country to country, anyway