Debbie Hayton's article for National Review

[moptophairshop]

Just wondering what people's thoughts were on this article. It is intended for a US audience but I found it interesting to hear a trans woman's point of view.
"While transgender people can and should be able to live our lives in peace, as a minority in need of accommodation, we need to fit in with society and not have society revolve around us."

www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/britain-comes-close-to-defeating-trans-overreach/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[MiladyRenata]

To be fair, the OP stated an interest in hearing the views of trans people.

Following which Floral categorically stated she wanted to hear more of Debbie's views. My point was that listening to Debbie is all well and good but there are other trans perspectives out there and the OP (for example) might be interested to hear them.

That's all.

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hello everyone. Can we remind you, please, that troll hunting is against the Talk Guidelines? We also take a pretty dim view of chasing off those with different views, which includes asking other posters not to engage with them.

[FloralBunting]

🤣 Right o, MNHQ.

Can I now categorically state that I've read as much of Hayton's views as I ever wish to.

Unrelatedly, I've also heard from or read all the male perspectives I ever care to in relation to women's rights.

Others may have a different opinion which they are more than welcome to fully share on FWR, or Feminist Chat as it's also known. We welcome all voices to be very clear on their views about women and women's rights.

[moptophairshop]

Wow, I really didn't think my first thread would have MNHQ involved! Only just checked back in so I've missed what has been said.
MiladyRenata, you are correct that my original post was prompted by the views of the author of the article. Prior to that, pretty much the only opinions I had seen from trans women were those of threats and abuse in response to people like JKR or the 'TWAW' slogan so that's why it stood out. I was unaware of the background surrounding the author such as their wife and three children. In exploring this further I will listen to the voice of Mrs Hayton and her experiences too.
As for the comments and opinions you have offered, well what can I say? You state that 'caring is an inherently feminine trait' which gives me a clear indication of how you expect women to perform and I see an expectation there that we should bend to accommodate others. Essentially, you have highlighted for me exactly why it is important to centre women's views and opinions when seeking to defend women's rights and outcomes.

[EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus]

Moptop, I would just like to say that you ROCK. Stick around.

[BitOfFun]

The documentary which will give you food for thought. I’m going to watch it again, it was brilliant.

[TinselAngel]

Can we nominate this for Classics?

[fuckinghellapeacock]

She's so pragmatic and the even handed way she speaks makes me think she empathises and identifies with women, not just as a woman.

[TinselAngel]

@fuckinghellapeacock

She's so pragmatic and the even handed way she speaks makes me think she empathises and identifies with women, not just as a woman.

What, me?

[ErrolTheDragon]

I need to register with C4 to watch BitOfFun's link .... it has 'gender' as a required field. Choices Female, Male , nonbinary and prefer not to say. So, a silly mishmash of sex and gender ... which I can't see they've any need to know at all (unlike age) and wtf have it as a mandatory field if prefer not to say is an option?

[ThePurported]

Essentially, you have highlighted for me exactly why it is important to centre women's views and opinions when seeking to defend women's rights and outcomes.

Welcome OP
This board has lost so many brilliant women who do exactly that.

[DialSquare]

Blimey! I go out for the day and come home wondering if #StandByPee is trending yet to see things have moved on quite considerably!

[OvaHere]

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

Hello everyone. Can we remind you, please, that troll hunting is against the Talk Guidelines? We also take a pretty dim view of chasing off those with different views, which includes asking other posters not to engage with them.

MNHQ have had no issue booting out many MRAs over the years who turn up to spout sexist drivel on the feminism board.

When such a person cloaks themselves with a gender identity suddenly we all have to be quiet and consider it a different perspective.

Why is this?

[EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus]

@DialSquare

Blimey! I go out for the day and come home wondering if #StandByPee is trending yet to see things have moved on quite considerably!

Love the idea of #StandByPee trending!

[SerenityNowwwww]

Not many takers yet...

[moptophairshop]

Thanks for the link BitOfFun, looks like an interesting watch. Dial I'd love to see #StandByPee trending.

[DialSquare]

Oh well. Back to the day job then.

[cosycatsocks]

@beckymumsnet no idea why my post was deleted. I never suggested anyone was a troll!!!