Debbie Hayton's article for National Review

[moptophairshop]

Just wondering what people's thoughts were on this article. It is intended for a US audience but I found it interesting to hear a trans woman's point of view.
"While transgender people can and should be able to live our lives in peace, as a minority in need of accommodation, we need to fit in with society and not have society revolve around us."

www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/britain-comes-close-to-defeating-trans-overreach/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[highame]

Just women will do fine and of course because there is a difference, transwomen is also a good term to use. It saves offending us

[Michelleoftheresistance]

"real women"

Argh.

What is a real woman then?

[Michelleoftheresistance]

Are female people transwomen? Or would you find that appropriative, offensive, erasing and plain factually impossible?

[ThinEndoftheWedge]

What I won't do is use language like "real women" that implies that trans women aren't really women. We are. We're just different from other women in certain respects.

But you are different from women in the one way that connects and defines all women - irrespective of race, religion, age, culture, beauty, size, education, beliefs, personality - adult human female.


Acknowledging this doesn't compromise our inherent femininity; in fact caring about the needs of others is an inherently feminine trait

My father was an early widower and brought up my brother and I. The most caring man I have ever met. Caring for others is not a restricted feminine trait or makes anyone a woman.

The word woman is just fine.

[Michelleoftheresistance]

in fact caring about the needs of others is an inherently feminine trait

Now that's plain sexist bollocks.

[SirVixofVixHall]

Milady you are not women.

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

'implying that transwomen aren't women' - with all due respect, in what way are you a woman?

And 'inherently feminine trait' is an insulting thing to say, frankly.

[highame]

ScrimpshawTheSecond

Agreed, just downright insulting.

My inherently feminine trait is spotting the grey hairs in my pubics

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

Breastfeeding. Periods. My childbirth scars. These are my inherently female traits, or the ones that spring to mind. None of these are going to feature in anyone with a Y chromosome.

It's important not to confuse semiotics with reality.

[Datun]

It's entirely understandable that individuals who base their identity on sexist stereotypes, will equate femininity with female.

When female is a description of reproductive potential. Hence the term woman, in law, is 'a female of any age'.

[TinselAngel]

caring about the needs of others is an inherently feminine trait.

All the lols.

[FloralBunting]

@Datun

It's entirely understandable that individuals who base their identity on sexist stereotypes, will equate femininity with female.

When female is a description of reproductive potential. Hence the term woman, in law, is 'a female of any age'.

This is the bottom line here, and why trans ideology is incompatible with a feminist viewpoint. You can't liberate women from harmful gendered expectations if you are simultaneously pushing the idea that femininity makes you female.

It makes you feminine, and you are welcome to embrace all that with enthusiasm. It's got bugger all to do with being a woman, though.

[testing987654321]

What I won't do is use language like "real women" that implies that trans women aren't really women.

In what way do you believe trans women are women?

What do I, as a woman, have in common with transwomen but I don't have in common with men? There must be something for you to say that transwomen are women.

[Datun]

@testing987654321

What I won't do is use language like "real women" that implies that trans women aren't really women.

In what way do you believe trans women are women?

What do I, as a woman, have in common with transwomen but I don't have in common with men? There must be something for you to say that transwomen are women.

You'll never get an adequate answer, because there isn't one. There's never been an answer to what is a woman.

You stand a far higher chance of being deleted, for responding with irritation and saying something against the rules which can be reported.

[FloralBunting]

I don't say 'real woman'. The 'real' is as redundant as 'biological'. Woman is completely sufficient. TWANW.

[Michelleoftheresistance]

Renata you've done this a few times on different threads, made a statement that's highly contentious and really quite offensive and then walked away, which makes me wonder what the intent is. People born male attempting to re-define women against their will, in a way that would like to enforce them in a box of restrictive and oppressive gender stereotypes and without interest in their feelings or thoughts on the matter, or caring that it is against their will, is classic misogyny. Which kind of contradicts the claims being made: the words don't match the actions.

[WeeBisom]

Milady Renata, May I ask- do you think that sex is distinct from gender ? I’ve just noticed you say you’re female.

[ThePurported]

This is straight out of Episode 1, Scene 1 of the Annals of Terf Wars.

Unbelievable. We're not even allowed to have a name for ourselves.

[highame]

I like the contentious, it shows just how bonded we are on what offends us and also what we have in common as TERFs

[EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus]

caring about the needs of others is an inherently feminine trait.

So you’re saying that all the transwomen who are appropriating womanhood, trying to rob us of our rights to single-sex spaces & threatening & abusing us when we object aren’t feminine, then....

[FloralBunting]

Quite an openly misandrist perspective, too, to suggest that men who care about the needs of others are somehow not actually men. Tut tut.

[testing987654321]

You'll never get an adequate answer, because there isn't one.

I just like to give the opportunity. They obviously believe there is something that makes transwomen women, I just want to know what it is.

[FloralBunting]

Mais oui, cosy. I don't feel the need to set out the centrality of women at the start of the thread and then ask a TW lots of questions about their views a few pages later. Not my concern, not even slightly relevant to women's lives. Useful only to point out the rank sexism involved and move on.