Debbie Hayton's article for National Review

[moptophairshop]

Just wondering what people's thoughts were on this article. It is intended for a US audience but I found it interesting to hear a trans woman's point of view.
"While transgender people can and should be able to live our lives in peace, as a minority in need of accommodation, we need to fit in with society and not have society revolve around us."

www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/britain-comes-close-to-defeating-trans-overreach/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[FloralBunting]

I'm quite happy to use certain male trans people to amplify our case, just as I'm cool with Daily Mail or Times articles, or Tory Brexit supporting MPs.

I just think there's reason to be clear that our motives and interests are very different, and I'll always be focusing on women.

[TinselAngel]

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

I also completely agree with Empress on page one. Can't imagine it happening, though, can you? Part of the wokebro's schtick is that I never see them actually talking to or addressing transwomen. Imagine seeing them say ' hey, I'd welcome you, I'd have your back, I'm happy to pee next to you'? I can't.

It could be #PeeWithMee, or something.

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

Yes, for sure. That's how I see it, really. Although I would say there is overlap - dismantling toxic masculine stereotypes would benefit all of us.

[DialSquare]

Standbypee?

[EmpressLangClegSpartacus]

@DialSquare

Standbypee?

[EmpressLangClegSpartacus]

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Yes, for sure. That's how I see it, really. Although I would say there is overlap - dismantling toxic masculine stereotypes would benefit all of us.

Yes, it would.

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

I like Standbypee!!

Haven't any of the gc men already done this?

[FloralBunting]

Scrimp certainly. My son benefits from being in a family environment where he understands boundaries and hears feminist conversation all the time - it informs his attitude towards all women, towards other men, and he has a sense of security in his own self by not being bound to gendered thinking, insofar as that is possible in our culture.

But women's rights aren't about the benefits to him, they are about his sisters. The system will already work for him in many ways - his sisters have been intimidated while out walking the dog twice in the last month and spent an evening afterwards looking for reassurance that they did nothing wrong.

It's just a focus thing, imo. Bottom line for me - 'including' male trans people's voices, however sympathetic, could mean a woman with a male trans partner might feel pushed out of a conversation about her rights. I just can't do that, however effective it might be at convincing fence dwellers. My feminism wouldn't be worth shit if I was knowingly excluding women like that.

[forsucksfake]

There was a #PeeWithMeBro but don't think it took off. I wonder why.

[CallarMorvern]

No, that one should judge how supportive a person is of women's rights by first considering how that person treats the women in their own life.

Oh, totally.

[EmpressLangClegSpartacus]

Can’t imagine.

[TinselAngel]

@DialSquare

Standbypee?

This is genius

[DialSquare]

I'm here all week!

[moptophairshop]

Thank you for all the welcoming messages! I don't agree that I was 'compelled to apologise for wrong speak' and have only taken the comments in a constructive way. Of course putting yourself out there in a thread for the first time is nerve-wracking (thank you for sharing some of your experiences) and so when it quickly became obvious there was an aspect I hadn't considered before posting then I wanted to check I hadn't inadvertently caused offence. The responses have been encouraging and I'm determined to continue on a journey of understanding.

[FloralBunting]

moptop, honestly, much respect. I forget what an intimidating bunch we can be, and it's always a bit nerve wracking jumping into an established social group for the first time. The fact that it's typing rather than face to face doesn't diminish that. The fact that you've taken it in good part, and haven't been cowed or got defensively cross is testament to your good-eggness.

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to the radicalisation portal/ nest of vipers moptop

[BitOfFun]

Welcome aboard, I hope!

[Datun]

'Good-eggness'

😁

[ThinEndoftheWedge]

Moptop

I think your journey is one many of us have travelled, but in fast forward!

One of my first threads (possibly using a different name as I had to name change) was to post a very old article I had just come across.
Took moments for someone to demonstrate remonstrate! I was yesterday’s woman and years out of date!

I now check.

[highame]

In some cases this may involve third space provision.

In all cases, unless you can give me the exceptions and Nothing about women without women, ever.

[midclegs]

Milady- "Obviously I'm just one person and you will find a wide spectrum of views amongst trans people as well as non trans people.^"
^
Didn't get any further than this without feeling the rage. NON-TRANS PEOPLE?

[MiladyRenata]

How do you wish to be referred to? I was deliberately avoiding the term "cisgender" because I know some of you find it offensive.

What I won't do is use language like "real women" that implies that trans women aren't really women. We are. We're just different from other women in certain respects. This doesn't mean we are inferior or that we should be treated like "men", but it does mean some adjustments (like separate hospital wards, changing rooms etc) because of the way our bodies look and work.

Acknowledging this doesn't compromise our inherent femininity; in fact caring about the needs of others is an inherently feminine trait.